Newbie astronomer - a big hello from Nick E

[Nick E]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to astronomy (and forums!) with no experience other than casually sweeping around with a pair of 10x50 binoculars from Lidl and fairly poor views of Saturn & Jupiter with a cheap 76mm newtonian from Aldi. I have always had an interest however and even went to a couple of Croydon Astronomy clubs meetings when I was about 10 years old. I won a bottle of champagne in the raffle on my first visit - my dad was pleased!

In January I finally brought a 'proper' telescope albeit a modest one - a Sky Watcher 5" Mak Cass on a tracking alt-az mount. M42 looked great earlier in the year - I even managed a picture of it with my DSLR on my new telescope. Since then I have had reasonable views of Saturn and Jupiter (although they are both a bit low at the moment) and glimpsed Mars earlier in the year but much as I check star maps and the 'whats up there this month' sections in the magazines, I can't find anything even remotely fuzzy up there. I suspect living in Sutton doesn't help... I have even flocked the inside of the scope and bought a broadband LPR filter (Astronomik CLS) but still couldn't see anything although I have only had one 'searching session' with this so far.

I strongly suspect that much of my woes are from not knowing quite what I should be looking for. Many objects are probably bigger/smaller than I imagine and I really know whether I'm looking in the right places. I point the scope at the nearest star to my target with the finder and then try to move it 'that way a bit' but whether I've moved it quite the right direction or the right amount I don't know.

Anyway, I think it's about time I sought professional help. My girlfiend agrees. I thought I'd come along to the observing session this evening to introduce myself properly and perhaps see if someone experienced can find anything with my kit. The forcast said rainy today but clear from around 9.00 onwards so fingers crossed. If it's cloudy then hopefully I'll be able to find some of you in the pub! I'll ask the bar staff if they can point you out... (I promise not to waffle as much as I have done in this introduction!).

Nick Emmons.

[Ian]

Hi Nick.

Faint fuzzies are called that coz they're bright and sharp

It's a steep learning curve when you first start out looking for stuff and obviously deep sky objects (basically anything that's not a star or solar system object) are pretty much the hardest to find.

I would recommend finding a few of the brightest objects this time of year, particularly as it doesn't get that dark (we're in astronomical twilight until sometime in August here).

The obvious ones are M13 in Hercules, the great globular cluster, which is a cluster of stars, surprisingly in a globular shape (astronomers write the labels for Ronseal tins when it's cloudy) and that's visible in binoculars or just about any scope. M57 in the ring nebula, it's small, but because of it's placement it's easy to find and when you've got those two, try M27 the dumbbell nebula. A bit more of a challenge that one, it's in a reasonably bland bit of sky from a naked eye perspective but should be visible in your scope. Bear in mind, when looking for these things that you need an accurately aligned finder (or goto if you're scope is capable), dark adapted eyesight (takes up to 30 mins of darkness to achieve) and concentration at the eyepiece. It's unlikely, even with these bright(ish) ones that you'll be able to observe it properly when you first look through the eyepiece. The brain can do this great "integration" trick where you'll see more detail the longer you look at it

While you're looking in that part of the sky, just enjoy Cygnus. It's directly in line with the milk way and the binoculars or scope will show just how many stars are up there. While you're looking in Cygnus, it's always good to take a look at Albireo, one of the finest ways of observing star colour.

It's always best to be shown stuff than work it out from an internet posting, so come along (although I can't be there).

[Nick E]

Hello Ian,

Thanks for the response and suggestions! If it's clear I'll try for these objects tonight. I don't think I ever manage to dark adapt properly in my garden. I live in a flat and if the neighbours on ground level switch on their bathroom light (which they do a lot) I get dazzled. I think I'll have to look at other places to observe from. I did manage this from the garden though (It's not great but I was quite please for a first attampt): http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/2571647702_62afbc5a12_b.jpg

I noticed the integration thing a couple of nights ago on Jupiter. At first it was just a disc with the four moons visible, but after a few minutes I began to make out the two main bands, then after a bit longer I could see hints of other bands and possibly signs of large festoons in the clouds (although I may have imagined those). If I switched to the other eye it was just a disc & moons again. Funny how the brain works!

Thanks again,

Nick.

[Ian]

Nice M42

[Carole]

Hi Nick,

Welcome to Astronomy and OAS.  For some-one who says they are new to it, you have achieved a lot in a very short time.

The best way for a beginner to find your way round the skies, is:

a) Study a sky map or planisphere, but of course with light polluted skies you can't see much more than the brightest stars, so concentrate with the more obvious ones to start with and then work your way out from there.

b) The other way is if your telescope has a GOTO, and be lazy to start with, accurate align it and let the telescope show you where things are.  

c) Third option is to use a computerised programme such as Starry Night, Google, sky, etc etc, this will tell you what's up there tonight and roughing where to look at it.  On Starry Night you can also switch off the less bright stars (limit the magnitude) so it looks more like what you are looking at outside.

Many of these deep sky objects you may not see at all and others will look like a fuzz, but if you use your DSLR then a timed exposure should bring them out (assuming you've got them in the eye piece in the first place).  You've already done a nice M42.

Always nice to introduce some-one new to the thrills of Astronomy.

I can't be at the observing night tonight, but Mike has an Astro-Imaging evening on Friday in his garden where we will also be getting a presentation.  Not sure if this is open to non members, but if you are planning to join I am sure you will be welcome.

Mike looks at these postings regularly so if you are interested I am sure he can clarify.

Carole

[Nick E]

Hi Carole,

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately my scope doesn't have GoTo, just up-down / left-right buttons at various speeds and a sidereal tracking facility. This works well enough but I still have to search things out manually. I have a planisphere & downloaded Cartes Du Ciel (freeware) which is great but I just can't see anything when I go outside to look

I'd like to go to the imaging session on Friday but I think with all the evenings I'm spending in the garden lately I'm worried my girlfriend might think I'm avoiding her! We'll see, perhaps I can wangle it...

Nick.

[Ian]

Nick,

I'd buy a book. If you can, get a big one. It looks more impressive, and has the added bonus of a larger scale and is more likely to be easy to read under a red light in the back garden. Failing that, print star maps off using CduC (assuming you can, I used to use XEphem for that). Stellarium is also good, not for star maps, but just playing and getting a feel for scale in the sky, which is the bit I found the hardest to understand. Google Sky isn't so bad either.

Secondly, I'd unlock the scopes axis clamps and move the scope by hand. It'll give you an understanding of how moving the scope changes the view in the eyepiece (and each type of scope does different things including mirroring and reversing the image etc). It'll also help you to understand how much of the sky you're actually looking at and allow you estimate how far the image moves for a given movement of the scope. Make sure the scope is reasonably balanced and stays largely where it's put or you'll be lobbing it in frustration over the neighbours fence as it droops down to the ground for the upteenth time (been there, done that too). Google "star hopping" or get a copy of "Turn Left at Orion".

Planispheres are great for naked eye and learning the constellations, but they don't have the resolution to help you with a scope. Like I said, steeeeeeeeep learning curve, but worth it in the end

[Mike]

Nick,

Please pop along to the Observing Session you will be more than welcome. It is hard at first finding things and it is entirely down to knowing where to look. With some objects and sky conditions, even using a GoTo System and having the object dead centre of the eyepiece they can still be hard to see and at first glance appear to not be there.

The best way to learn is to do it alongside people who have done it before and can impart their knowledge and show you how to find things. Once you get the hang of it it's relatively easy. A lot of beginners also think that objects through the telescope will look the the pictures you see on the box (especialy if its a Tasco scope) when of course most of the time they are just fuzzy smudges. Your CLS filter may help, but the disadvantage of any filter is they also let through less light so if you are in a heavily light polluted area may make your viewing worse on all but the brightest of objects.

Of course a GoTo System makes it all childs play, but with a bit of experience and knowledge star hopping can be used to find objects easily enough. I would suggest either a laser pointer finder or a zero magnification finder like a Telrad as these make finding objects a lot easier in my opinion and can be used alongside your existing finderscope.

If you can't make it along tonight then you will also be welcome at the Imaging Session on Friday.

[Nick E]

Ian, Carole, Mike,

Thanks so much for all your suggestions and advice. You have both made me feel really welcome and I appreciate that enormously.

I wasn't expecting to get anything like as much input and certainly not so quickly. What a nice surprise when people exceed your expectations.

I'll definitely be there tonight although I might not make Friday and I'll be on holiday for the monthly meeting on 24th but hopefully I'll meet up with you all some time in August as based on experiences so far I think I'll be joining the club!

Mike, I have seen Telrads & the like advertised and have heard good things about them although I have never used one. Hopefully someone tonight might have one I can have a look at and if it seems like it will help I suspect it'll be money well spent. Maybe someone who knows about these things can have a look at my scope as well. Focussed stars at high manification seem to show an airy disc and a diffration ring or two (can you tell I've been swatting up?) but I'm no expert and I don't know for a fact that I haven't upset the collimation when I flocked it (just unscrewed the meniscus lens to gain access). Everything seems to be OK as far as I can tell but perhaps a minor adjustment will make all the difference...

[doug]

     Hi there, Nick.

     Yeah, come along to the Observing session, like wot people have said.. you will be made very welcome, I am sure. Perhaps I might be so bold to suggest you have a look at the World Wide Telescope, which is well worth a look at as it has so much information.  As well as Celestia, Stellarium and all the others.....

     Look forward to seeing you there at the "Change of Horses" in Farnborough village tonight.

     Cheers for now, from Doug and Rose.   

[Mike]

Nick,

See you tonight at the Change of Horses around 8.15

Bring your scope and we'll have a look at it. It may need collimating and as it's a Mak that is very likely. It's relatively easy enough to do though fiddly. We'll show you how at least.

I do have a Telrad somewhere but probably won't be able to bring it along tonight as it is buried underneath a smal mountain of crap in the garage as I haven't used it for a while (too big for my refractors and I need a new base to put it on my Vixen)

The forecast is not looking too bad for tonight so far. We might be able to at least get a bit of observing in, fingers crossed!

[Mike]

I wasn't expecting to get anything like as much input and certainly not so quickly. What a nice surprise when people exceed your expectations.

I think you'll find we are the friendliest astronomical society in the galaxy

[Nick E]

Hi Doug, Mike, Rose,

I'll bring my allen keys to fit the collimation screws just in case!

The Change of Horses it is. See you tonight.

I'll be the one in the dark blue jumper with dark scruffy hair and tan leather boots looking around for you but trying not to make unnecessary eye contact in case people get the wrong idea

Cheers!

[Ian]

look out for foxes in those boots mate. Particularly if they've followed Mike in their rusty white transit van...

[Mike]

I'll be the one in the dark blue jumper with dark scruffy hair and tan leather boots looking around for you but trying not to make unnecessary eye contact in case people get the wrong idea

...and we'll be the bunch of weirdos in the corner that look like a gang of geriatrics and their carers at a "Get your granny pissed" night.