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Newbie astronomer - a big hello from Nick E

Started by Nick E, Jul 02, 2008, 10:15:16

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Nick E

Hello everyone,

I'm new to astronomy (and forums!) with no experience other than casually sweeping around with a pair of 10x50 binoculars from Lidl and fairly poor views of Saturn & Jupiter with a cheap 76mm newtonian from Aldi. I have always had an interest however and even went to a couple of Croydon Astronomy clubs meetings when I was about 10 years old. I won a bottle of champagne in the raffle on my first visit - my dad was pleased!

In January I finally brought a 'proper' telescope albeit a modest one - a Sky Watcher 5" Mak Cass on a tracking alt-az mount. M42 looked great earlier in the year - I even managed a picture of it with my DSLR on my new telescope. Since then I have had reasonable views of Saturn and Jupiter (although they are both a bit low at the moment) and glimpsed Mars earlier in the year but much as I check star maps and the 'whats up there this month' sections in the magazines, I can't find anything even remotely fuzzy up there. I suspect living in Sutton doesn't help... I have even flocked the inside of the scope and bought a broadband LPR filter (Astronomik CLS) but still couldn't see anything although I have only had one 'searching session' with this so far.

I strongly suspect that much of my woes are from not knowing quite what I should be looking for. Many objects are probably bigger/smaller than I imagine and I really know whether I'm looking in the right places. I point the scope at the nearest star to my target with the finder and then try to move it 'that way a bit' but whether I've moved it quite the right direction or the right amount I don't know.

Anyway, I think it's about time I sought professional help. My girlfiend agrees. I thought I'd come along to the observing session this evening to introduce myself properly and perhaps see if someone experienced can find anything with my kit. The forcast said rainy today but clear from around 9.00 onwards so fingers crossed. If it's cloudy then hopefully I'll be able to find some of you in the pub! I'll ask the bar staff if they can point you out... (I promise not to waffle as much as I have done in this introduction!).

Nick Emmons.

Ian

Hi Nick.

Faint fuzzies are called that coz they're bright and sharp ;)

It's a steep learning curve when you first start out looking for stuff and obviously deep sky objects (basically anything that's not a star or solar system object) are pretty much the hardest to find.

I would recommend finding a few of the brightest objects this time of year, particularly as it doesn't get that dark (we're in astronomical twilight until sometime in August here).

The obvious ones are M13 in Hercules, the great globular cluster, which is a cluster of stars, surprisingly in a globular shape (astronomers write the labels for Ronseal tins when it's cloudy) and that's visible in binoculars or just about any scope. M57 in the ring nebula, it's small, but because of it's placement it's easy to find and when you've got those two, try M27 the dumbbell nebula. A bit more of a challenge that one, it's in a reasonably bland bit of sky from a naked eye perspective but should be visible in your scope. Bear in mind, when looking for these things that you need an accurately aligned finder (or goto if you're scope is capable), dark adapted eyesight (takes up to 30 mins of darkness to achieve) and concentration at the eyepiece. It's unlikely, even with these bright(ish) ones that you'll be able to observe it properly when you first look through the eyepiece. The brain can do this great "integration" trick where you'll see more detail the longer you look at it :)

While you're looking in that part of the sky, just enjoy Cygnus. It's directly in line with the milk way and the binoculars or scope will show just how many stars are up there. While you're looking in Cygnus, it's always good to take a look at Albireo, one of the finest ways of observing star colour.

It's always best to be shown stuff than work it out from an internet posting, so come along (although I can't be there).

Nick E

Hello Ian,

Thanks for the response and suggestions! If it's clear I'll try for these objects tonight. I don't think I ever manage to dark adapt properly in my garden. I live in a flat and if the neighbours on ground level switch on their bathroom light (which they do a lot) I get dazzled. I think I'll have to look at other places to observe from. I did manage this from the garden though (It's not great but I was quite please for a first attampt): http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/2571647702_62afbc5a12_b.jpg

I noticed the integration thing a couple of nights ago on Jupiter. At first it was just a disc with the four moons visible, but after a few minutes I began to make out the two main bands, then after a bit longer I could see hints of other bands and possibly signs of large festoons in the clouds (although I may have imagined those). If I switched to the other eye it was just a disc & moons again. Funny how the brain works!

Thanks again,

Nick.

Ian


Carole

Hi Nick,

Welcome to Astronomy and OAS.  For some-one who says they are new to it, you have achieved a lot in a very short time.

The best way for a beginner to find your way round the skies, is:

a) Study a sky map or planisphere, but of course with light polluted skies you can't see much more than the brightest stars, so concentrate with the more obvious ones to start with and then work your way out from there.

b) The other way is if your telescope has a GOTO, and be lazy to start with, accurate align it and let the telescope show you where things are.  

c) Third option is to use a computerised programme such as Starry Night, Google, sky, etc etc, this will tell you what's up there tonight and roughing where to look at it.  On Starry Night you can also switch off the less bright stars (limit the magnitude) so it looks more like what you are looking at outside.

Many of these deep sky objects you may not see at all and others will look like a fuzz, but if you use your DSLR then a timed exposure should bring them out (assuming you've got them in the eye piece in the first place).  You've already done a nice M42.

Always nice to introduce some-one new to the thrills of Astronomy.

I can't be at the observing night tonight, but Mike has an Astro-Imaging evening on Friday in his garden where we will also be getting a presentation.  Not sure if this is open to non members, but if you are planning to join I am sure you will be welcome.

Mike looks at these postings regularly so if you are interested I am sure he can clarify.

Carole


Nick E

Hi Carole,

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately my scope doesn't have GoTo, just up-down / left-right buttons at various speeds and a sidereal tracking facility. This works well enough but I still have to search things out manually. I have a planisphere & downloaded Cartes Du Ciel (freeware) which is great but I just can't see anything when I go outside to look :(

I'd like to go to the imaging session on Friday but I think with all the evenings I'm spending in the garden lately I'm worried my girlfriend might think I'm avoiding her! We'll see, perhaps I can wangle it...

Nick.

Ian

Nick,

I'd buy a book. If you can, get a big one. It looks more impressive, and has the added bonus of a larger scale and is more likely to be easy to read under a red light in the back garden. Failing that, print star maps off using CduC (assuming you can, I used to use XEphem for that). Stellarium is also good, not for star maps, but just playing and getting a feel for scale in the sky, which is the bit I found the hardest to understand. Google Sky isn't so bad either.

Secondly, I'd unlock the scopes axis clamps and move the scope by hand. It'll give you an understanding of how moving the scope changes the view in the eyepiece (and each type of scope does different things including mirroring and reversing the image etc). It'll also help you to understand how much of the sky you're actually looking at and allow you estimate how far the image moves for a given movement of the scope. Make sure the scope is reasonably balanced and stays largely where it's put or you'll be lobbing it in frustration over the neighbours fence as it droops down to the ground for the upteenth time (been there, done that too). Google "star hopping" or get a copy of "Turn Left at Orion".

Planispheres are great for naked eye and learning the constellations, but they don't have the resolution to help you with a scope. Like I said, steeeeeeeeep learning curve, but worth it in the end :)

Mike

Nick,

Please pop along to the Observing Session you will be more than welcome. It is hard at first finding things and it is entirely down to knowing where to look. With some objects and sky conditions, even using a GoTo System and having the object dead centre of the eyepiece they can still be hard to see and at first glance appear to not be there.

The best way to learn is to do it alongside people who have done it before and can impart their knowledge and show you how to find things. Once you get the hang of it it's relatively easy. A lot of beginners also think that objects through the telescope will look the the pictures you see on the box (especialy if its a Tasco scope) when of course most of the time they are just fuzzy smudges. Your CLS filter may help, but the disadvantage of any filter is they also let through less light so if you are in a heavily light polluted area may make your viewing worse on all but the brightest of objects.

Of course a GoTo System makes it all childs play, but with a bit of experience and knowledge star hopping can be used to find objects easily enough. I would suggest either a laser pointer finder or a zero magnification finder like a Telrad as these make finding objects a lot easier in my opinion and can be used alongside your existing finderscope.

If you can't make it along tonight then you will also be welcome at the Imaging Session on Friday.
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. Carl Sagan

Nick E

Ian, Carole, Mike,

Thanks so much for all your suggestions and advice. You have both made me feel really welcome and I appreciate that enormously.

I wasn't expecting to get anything like as much input and certainly not so quickly. What a nice surprise when people exceed your expectations.

I'll definitely be there tonight although I might not make Friday and I'll be on holiday for the monthly meeting on 24th but hopefully I'll meet up with you all some time in August as based on experiences so far I think I'll be joining the club!

Mike, I have seen Telrads & the like advertised and have heard good things about them although I have never used one. Hopefully someone tonight might have one I can have a look at and if it seems like it will help I suspect it'll be money well spent. Maybe someone who knows about these things can have a look at my scope as well. Focussed stars at high manification seem to show an airy disc and a diffration ring or two (can you tell I've been swatting up?) but I'm no expert and I don't know for a fact that I haven't upset the collimation when I flocked it (just unscrewed the meniscus lens to gain access). Everything seems to be OK as far as I can tell but perhaps a minor adjustment will make all the difference...

doug


     Hi there, Nick.

     Yeah, come along to the Observing session, like wot people have said.. you will be made very welcome, I am sure. Perhaps I might be so bold to suggest you have a look at the World Wide Telescope, which is well worth a look at as it has so much information.  As well as Celestia, Stellarium and all the others.....

     Look forward to seeing you there at the "Change of Horses" in Farnborough village tonight.

     Cheers for now, from Doug and Rose.   :D
Always look on the bright side of life ...

Mike

#10
Nick,

See you tonight at the Change of Horses around 8.15

Bring your scope and we'll have a look at it. It may need collimating and as it's a Mak that is very likely. It's relatively easy enough to do though fiddly. We'll show you how at least.

I do have a Telrad somewhere but probably won't be able to bring it along tonight as it is buried underneath a smal mountain of crap in the garage as I haven't used it for a while (too big for my refractors and I need a new base to put it on my Vixen)

The forecast is not looking too bad for tonight so far. We might be able to at least get a bit of observing in, fingers crossed!
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. Carl Sagan

Mike

Quote from: Nick E on Jul 02, 2008, 13:07:57I wasn't expecting to get anything like as much input and certainly not so quickly. What a nice surprise when people exceed your expectations.

I think you'll find we are the friendliest astronomical society in the galaxy :)
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. Carl Sagan

Nick E

Hi Doug, Mike, Rose,

I'll bring my allen keys to fit the collimation screws just in case!

The Change of Horses it is. See you tonight.

I'll be the one in the dark blue jumper with dark scruffy hair and tan leather boots looking around for you but trying not to make unnecessary eye contact in case people get the wrong idea :o

Cheers!

Ian

look out for foxes in those boots mate. Particularly if they've followed Mike in their rusty white transit van...

Mike

Quote from: Nick E on Jul 02, 2008, 15:09:18I'll be the one in the dark blue jumper with dark scruffy hair and tan leather boots looking around for you but trying not to make unnecessary eye contact in case people get the wrong idea :o

...and we'll be the bunch of weirdos in the corner that look like a gang of geriatrics and their carers at a "Get your granny pissed" night.
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. Carl Sagan

Nick E

Well it's now the morning after and I'm knackered 'cos I only had 4 & 1/2 hours kip last night but I had a great evening and couldn't be happier. I was made to feel really welcome and everyone was keen to help and to show me some of the sights I had been missing. It was this as well as actually seeing new things which made my evening a really memorable one.

The haze soon cleared and (with lots of help) I saw more last night than in all my previous observing attempts rolled together! I saw the globular cluster M13 in Hercules, the Ring nebula, the Dumbell nebula, the Triffid and Lagoon nebulae, and a quick glimpse of the Duck nebula, NGC2359. And the Milky Way! The last time I saw the Milky Way was around 25 years ago! I also learned that I really need a red dot finder as when your binoculars, telescope and finder all show images in different orientations it makes star hopping a bit tricky. I would never have seen the things I did without all your assistance and it has fired up my enthusiasm no end. I now know my telescope is capable and my eyes aren't faulty! I also have a much better idea of what to look for in the eyepiece in future which I think will give me a better chance of actually seeing an object when it's in the field of view where I may have missed it before.

I won't be able to make Fridays imaging session and then I'll be on holiday until month end but I'll definitely be along again and I hope to meet up with you all in August.

Thanks again,

Nick.

Mike

I am also knackered after getting up at 5.30 and not gettign home till 12.30 last night. But it was worth it as it was the best sky we've had at an observing session for quite a few months now.

Nick, Dunc and I were even priviledged (after everyone else had left) to see the NOSS triplets (only 2 visible) pass over. Well at least I presume they were NOSS as I haven't checked heavens-above.com yet. There were two satellites about 1 degree apart that travelled in unison together across the sky.

Glad you enjoyed the night Nick and also glad we could be of assistance to you.

Look forward to seeing you again in the not too distant future.
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. Carl Sagan

JohnP

#17
Quoteto see the NOSS triplets

Now... what were they doing at High Elms at that time of night all by themselves..... :-)

Mike

Well that's between them and the 3 of us that were there. No photo's i'm afraid ;)
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. Carl Sagan

JohnP

ha..... :-) Guess it explains this....

QuoteI am also knackered
:lol:

Mike

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. Carl Sagan

Tony G

Nick,

Nice to meet you last night, and I hope this does encourage you to visit more, and as we were saying last night, Tuesnoad is next month and if clear, the skies are great, so try and get down.
On the issue of the NOSS triplets, are they the three OLD grannies that were fleecing you for drinks and pork scratching in the 'Change of Horses', because I actually thought one of them wasn't breathing and was being propped up in the middle by the other two, Who ended up with that one?????????
Another three now you'll have to care for! ;)

Tony G
"I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman." - Homer Simpson

The Thing

Hi Nick, it was great to meet you, you are obviously keen as you stuck it out with Mike and I until the dew started making things unpleasant! I learnt a lot on Wednesday as well, absorbing a lot about where things are in relation to the stars. I have a GoTo scope at home and while it always finds objects it doesn't help you learn the sky.

Hopefully see you at the imaging session tonight, ask Mike for the address. Maybe the three NOSS grannies will make an appearance!

Nick E

#23
Hello again Mike, Dunc, Doug, Rose, Tony, Fay, Ian, Carole, John and everyone else,

Well I said I'd be back... It's only been 10 months since my one and only visit to you! I hope you are all well (Carole, I'm sorry to hear about your accident at the hands of a reckless cyclist - I hope you're on the mend. As a cyclist myself I can only say were not all like that - cutting between a bus and the kerb at a bus stop is just stupidity beyond belief...).

My excuses for not being back since are that things have been manic for the last year with too many distractions and commitments to lure me away from thoughts of surveying the heavens.

Anyway my evening classes will be coming to an end in the next couple of months and things seem to be calming down a bit generally so the bug is beginning to bite again. It's strange, my astronomical urges seem to get stronger in the summer when the nights are shorter and my biking urges seem to grow in the run up to winter - I think I've gone a bit wrong somewhere...

I see there's an observing session on the 19th and the DSC on 22nd to 25th. I'd love to make one of these - it may not be possible but if I can I will - Perhaps I'll see some of you soon.

In the meantime clear skies to you all...

Best regards,

Nick.




Carole

Welcome back Nick.
Thanks for your kind words.

I am not sure I actually met you last year but we did converse by E mail.  I am going to the Imaging session tomorrow thanks to Doug and Rose as I can't drive yet, and again thanks to D&R am hoping to make it down to DSC for a day, so hope to see you at one of them.

You'll recognise me, I'm the one who can't do much with their right arm at the moment.  Do introduce yourself.

Carole

Mike

Nick - Hope to see you soon. Please pop on down to the DSC, even if you're not going to stay overnight you can come down for a visit at least.
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. Carl Sagan