Modifying my webcam - which B/W CCD?

[The Thing]

Gents and Ladies,

I am looking to replace the colour CCD in my Phillips SPC900NC webcam with a black and white one. This is an easy swap and should give 3x sensitivity according to what I have read (presumably due to the lack of a Bayer mask and associated processing).

This is the spec of a generic ICX098BL - http://www.theimagingsource.com/downloads/icx098bl.en_US.pdf

I have found a supplier (www.framos.de) and they have two versions of the chip, E and F. I have found technical specs for versions the chips (see links) but I don't know enough about the figures quoted (which are quite different for 'dark' exposures) to know which to choose. One costs 2.5x the other.

Euro 64 - http://www.pierro-astro.com/Fichiers/ICX098BL-E.pdf
Euro 25 - http://www.pierro-astro.com/Fichiers/ICX098BL-F.pdf

Should I take the view that more expensive is best or is the cheaper one better for a guidecam ... or is there any practical difference?

TIA Any guidance will be gratefully read.

[JohnP]

Hi Dunc,

Are you just doing this for guiding or imaging.. if guiding I would choose the cheaper option - i'm sure it's down to quality of ccd & number of hot pixels etc. Framos have a UK office run by a guy called Jullian Parfitt - He is very knowledgeable so why don't you give him a call - I have chatted with him at exhibitions before...

If you are going for imaging then I wouldn't bother with the B&W equivalent I would go for the SC3 (ICX424AL) uprgrade - it's a much much more sensitive chip... The mod is more complicated but certainly 'doable' if you have the skills to replace the chip anyway.

One word of warning whichever you go for be extremely careful removing the old chip - I thought I'd be smart and use a pair of sharp cutters to just cut through the legs it ended up pulling half the tracks off the pcb - took me about a week to figure out where all the pins were meant to go etc. & to patch up the pcb....

John.

[The Thing]

Hi John,

I am just looking at guiding with it.

I have just looked up the ICX424AL and again it has an E and F variation, though the prices are not so different. I appreciate the larger chip size and bigger pixels are desirable but I like the simplicity of the straight swap. So the cheaper chip it shall be, if spend any more I might as well buy a QHY or similar.

Thanks

[Rocket Pooch]

Dunc,

Be careful the QHY5 CMOS is not sensitive enough (Robert had one) and the QHY6 (I have one) is about the price of an IC16 Mono, I have the QHY6, I would buy a IC16 rather than the QHY any day, mainly due to quality issues.

If you advertise for an IC16 Mono on astro buy sell you should be able to pick one up at a reasonable price MOST PEOPLE WITH THEM ARE UPGRADING TO 314L so there are quite a few out there, sorry had to do that to John P

Chris

[RobertM]

Dunc,

As Chris has mentioned, the QHY5 is not sensitive enough.  As an owner I would recommend the Atik 16IC for guiding, it's cooled and sensitive but does need 12v power.  Even though the interface is USB1.1 and quite slow the subframes used for guiding are small so the download speed doesn't really matter.   You will also be pushed to get anything much more sensitive without going for a ST402XME at many times the price.  It is also an amazing imaging camera for the size, just look at what John has produced.  Alternatives are SX small chipped cameras (very similar) and the Lodestar.  I paid under £250 for mine second hand inc postage and it was less than a year old, as far as I'm concerned it was money well spent.

Just my peneth...

[JohnP]

Look chris - just donate me the 314L when you win it on the atik imaging competition... right!!!!! I mean what are mates for........

John...


(PS .... & don't say contraception...)

[The Thing]

I suspect astronomy as a hobby is quite an effective form of contraception - in countries with clear skies 

I'm not bothered about subframes and guiding output as I have a Meade LX90 and would need a 909 module thingy to plug an ST4 guider into. Straight naff Windy videeoh with PHD spotting the dot is my basic concern. Only in my back garden with the SPC900 and a SkyWatcher AT80 there are very few dots for PHD to spot. Hence the chip upgrade.

It's easier in Normandy, can we ask Al Qaeda to blow up a few tens of thousands of lampposts and issue a fatwa against security lighting?

[RobertM]

Exactly!

[Rocket Pooch]

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=23217

[Carole]

Chris, is this Webcam for guiding or actual imaging?

Carole

[The Thing]

If only I had £120 to spare... then I wouldn't have started this thread!

I have been reading up on dead bug LX mods and cold fingers under chips and am nearly ready to warm up the soldering iron and take the Phillips out of my SPC900NC.

I already have a small PC fan glued to the end of the housing and because I have drilled some holes in the housing there is a nice flow of air over the innards. I was definitely able see more stars in PHD on Friday night as a result. I suspect it will be more efficient if I rehouse the camera boards in an old travel sweet tin and add an aluminium cold finger under the CCD when I change it. The fan plugs into a straight through socket on my Kendrick Digifire dew heater controller and has pretty (annoying) blue LEDs.

[Rocket Pooch]

Chris, is this Webcam for guiding or actual imaging?

Carole

Both if you wanted to.  But not at the same time.

[Carole]

Although I haven't made up my mind yet whether to go DSLR or CCD imaging, I have decided to get this as I can use it for the Guide scope later if I go DSLR.  It's only a small chip, but thought I would grab this for practicing with to see how I go.

Any tips from any-one for "security" with these sort of purchases?

Carole

[Ian]

go collect it yourself and ask for a demonstration is about the best I can offer. I would ask for a dark frame so you can see the noise and perhaps make a judgement about whether the cooling is working. Maybe someone with one of these cameras could give you one from theirs by way of comparison?

They're not hugely complicated (well, except for the webcam bit) so if you hit technical difficulties, it should be possible for someone within the society to help out with a fix. In fact, even if it's completely borked a webcam and chip are easy to come by. We can rebuild it (queue 6 million dollar man music).

[Carole]

He's actually sent me a couple of images made the with camera.  M37 can't see any noise in that.
I've also looked on the web and seen a number of images done with this camera.

As he lives in Dorset, unless he's up this way I think we are both going to have to trust each other.  i.e. I pay half up front and balance on receipt.

I was only wondering whether there was some sort of "Paypal" option available to individuals.

Thanks
Carole