Equipment disasters and advice needed

[Carole]

I went out tonight for my 3rd go at Imaging.

My first imaging sessions resulted in a featureless white disc of Mars on a black background which I was too embarrassed to put on display.  I was reassured however by Mike (who I sent it to) that it was an OK image for a first go.

My second attempt - goodness knows why but I could not even get an image on K3 at all.

3rd attempt tonight was an absolute disaster.  The alignment was completely up the spout.  It kept looking for stars that were behind the house, and would not let me choose any (apart from Capella) that were blindingly obvious such at Betelgeuse or Rigel or Pollux etc.  (These days incidentally, despite going through the correct procedures which I have done many times before, it slews no-where near the objects it is looking for).  Anyway in the end I did an alignment where I could choose the stars manually.  It told me Rigel and Saiph were below the horizon and they were actually a good 25 degrees up, but accepted Betelgeuse. 

I flipped over the mirror and inserted the webcam, and then K3 got stuck - by the time I had fiddled and "unstuck it", Mars had drifted out of view, the tracking is crap on my ETX.

Anyway, after all this (and before I could get an image), the flip mirror seems to have broken and now I can't see through either the right angled eyepiece or the rear port, so I'm totally stuffed.

Ok, Ok, I know all you guys told me that the ETX was not really suitable for imaging, but there is sometimes a limit to ones budget (at least at this moment in time) plus I wanted to see how I got on with basic imaging before I laid out larger sums of money.

So can any-one tell me if this is going to be an expensive job to fix, as if it is I might as well think about getting another scope suitable for imaging.  I just hope some of the recent equipment I have bought can be used with another scope.

Also, if any-one knows of any-one selling a suitable scope for imaging perhaps they can let me know.  You Guys are going to have to advise me as to what I would need to get.

Carole

[Mike]

Firstly, you keep talking about getting a new scope - Your scope is fine, it's the mount that is important and the Meade mounts are as much use as a chocolate fireguard. However, for what you are trying to do with it, i.e. moon and planetery images you have a very good set-up. You just need to learn to use it to its full potential.

Are you sure that your Polar Alignment is spot on? To get good tracking without guiding your polar alignment needs to be as close to perfect as possible and that takes time. Only by doing drift aligning will you get it right and this can take anything up to 30 mins to do on its own.

Your alignment routine sounds like either you have the wrong time in, wrong time zone, BST on or off or have entered the date wrong (The Synscan date is entered in mm/dd/yyyy format and has caught me out many a time). In cases like that, home the scope, power off and start again.

Sounds to me like your only real problem is the flip mirror and until I can take a look at it I will have no idea what needs doing to it. Bring it along to the Xmas meeting. The rest of it is simply down to lots and lots of patience, plenty of enthusiasm and persistence. I think Fay is a testament to what can be done with perseverance. Despite all the troubles she has had she has stuck at it and is now producing fantastic images as good as any other astrophotographer.

I personally think you are trying to run before you can walk. I suggest you take your time and ensure that you completely master one topic before moving on to the next. Don't try to do everything at once. If I were you I would learn how to get accurate Polar Alignment and would spend as many nights as is necessary in getting that right before you even think of trying to get an image. Once you have mastered that, then move on to learning to use K3 in the daytime on a distant object, then go out and do it at night on a large and easy to find object like the Moon.

Your image of Mars shows you can do it, but I think you need to take a step back, relearn the basics and then move forward at a sensible pace until you can piece it all together and get it right.

[Carole]

Thanks for all that Mike.  But I have to say I have done alignment loads of times and sometimes it is spot on and sometimes it is way out and yet I have done exactly the same thing every time.  I have a feeling I might have got the date one day out tonight, but there should not have been such a difference as there was.  I always use a spirit level and compass, although I find pointing the scope at Polaris more accurate and I follow the same procedure every time. 

I do not understand how I can use a different mount on an ETX which has a specific base plate and mounting screws.  How would it fit another mount?  You did at one time mention something about removing the scope from the fork, but isn't that where the drive motors are located?

Carole

[JohnP]

Meade mounts are as much use as a chocolate fireguard

Mike - I know that you despise Meade & keep slagging their mounts but for introduction to imaging & value they are great. My LXD75 served me well & I learnt loads with it along the way. If you look at my webpage most of the images up to about 6 months ago are taken with it. I never had issues with goto's (like I do with the EQ6) & I still say that the S/W on the autostar is a ton better than the EQ6 controller.. I still have it & it's so easy to set up & start imaging with.. For sub £500 for goto mount with a 6-inch reflector you can't complain.... I've had hours & hours of use out of it...

OK - Carole... If you are trying to image Mars don't bother with goto alignment at all - just make sure that your finder scope is accurately aligned with the telescope - do the best polar alignment you can do (again doesn't need to be hyper critical for planetary imaging as you will be using such a short exposure) & then just manual push the scope to Mars & concentrate on Imaging.... If you find that Mars doesn't stay on the webcam chip for very long it's probably because your polar alignment is way off...

John

[Ian]

The flip mirror is a bit of a pain, as Mike said, bring it to the meeting later this month and we'll see what we can rig up. I'll bring some tools with me.

Just to add to the four Yorkshiremen sketch that's rapidly forming here; when I started imaging the moon and the planets my mount didn't even have a basic drive. I had to try and place the planet on one side of the ccd and as it tracked across start the capture, then stop it before the disc was clipped by the opposite edge of ccd. I then rinsed and repeated until I had enough frames to process.

They were not my best images, focussing was a real pain because the mount was so wobbly, but it is possible.

Still the most important bit of kit is perseverance. Or is it bloodymindedness?

[Mike]

....I know that you despise Meade & keep slagging their mounts....

Yep I do and will keep doing so Someone did a PEC test of their new £23,000 mount and it came out worse than the EQ6 !!

Anyway, I know what you are saying and I agree. As I said to Carole, what she has for doing planetery images is fine, she just needs patience to learn to use it to it's full potential. However, I know that Carole want's to progress onto Long Exposures and then her mount would be useless.

Carole, there is nothing stopping you using the OTA you have on the ETX on another mount. All you need is some rings of the correct size and you can then attach it the the relevant dovetail. Despite Meade moutns being naff their optics are excellent. The only downside is that the focusing on the ETX isn't great and SCT's suffer from mirror shift due to the design of the focuser arrangement.

Ian - The method you describe is exactly what I did with my very first scope, which was a 4.25" Bresser newt on an EQ1 (still in my garage somewhere) and a Black and White Security CCTV camera. I let the object drift across the field of view and then adjusted the scopes position once the object had dissapeared.

[Mac]

Just to add to the four Yorkshiremen sketch that's rapidly forming

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

[Carole]

Thanks Guys,

Mike, can you tell me what OTA and SCT stand for?

I'll certainly bring the scope to the meeting, do you need me to remind you to bring the tools Ian, and thanks both of you?

2 things. 
I have had a mental flash back.  I know that I selected the correct date of the month, the right time and not daylight saving, balanced the scope and pointed to polaris, but I have an awful feeling I forgot to change the Autostar to December from November - Duh!!!!  No wonder the poor telescope was so confused (as was I) and would certainly explain why it thought certain bright stars were below the horizon at that time.   Anyway, before I relegate myself to the dunce's corner I'll check my Autostar tonight as that seems to retain the last date used. 

I noted John's comment "I had to try and place the planet on one side of the ccd and as it tracked across start the capture, then stop it before the disc was clipped by the opposite edge of ccd", as that is more or less what happened with my first image except it never quite left the CCD, but the stacking compensated for this. 

I do realised of course that you can't get away with this on deep sky imaging and that I have to sort out alignment, which sometimes works well and sometimes doesn't and I can't find any rhyme or reason to this apart from when I do somthing stupid like last night.

I do realise that if I decide to progress to deep sky long exposures I will have to get some different equipment, but as I said to Mike, I don't want to jump in at the deep end and spend a lot of money until I have conquered the solar system.  If I don't get to grips with that then I have not wasted a lot of money.  So I am basically using this as a dry run.

Can't read your link at work Mac, it is barred by the work IT system.

Carole

[Carole]

Sorry John, I think it was Ian who said he captured a planet moving accross the CCD, it's difficult to work out who sent what when you read the messages in reverse order (mid doing a posting).

Carole

[Mike]

Mike, can you tell me what OTA and SCT stand for?

Sorry I thought you knew all of the TUACAA's (Totally Useless and Confusing Astronomical Acronyms).

OTA = Optical Tube Assembly.     i.e. the telescope
SCT = Schmidt-Cassegrain Telescope   i.e. your ETX125


Carole take a look at what this guy has taken recently with his ETX....

http://ukastroimaging.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=34266.0;topicseen

[Carole]

Verdict - Guilty as charged, very embarrassed!!!!

I go to the dunce's corner (see previous posts if you don't know what I am talking about).

I can't get into that website Mike because you need to be registered.  When I tried to register I must have registered once before but it keeps saying there is an error.  I have requested an activation E mail but that hasn't come through yet.  Will hopefully have a look as soon as I am able.

Carole

[Mike]

Go directly to his website - http://www.frankryanjr.com/mars.htm

[Carole]

Hi Mike and Ian,

Just a quick reminder.  You kindly said you would have a look at my broken flip mirror on Thursday.

Ian, you said you would bring some tools.

Many thanks
carole

[Carole]

Well I've rung Telescope House and spoken to the repair man.
It looks as though the repair is going to be affordable, so I am planning to take the scope down there on Wednesday (if I get out of the Dentist surgery in time!!!).

Carole

[Mike]

Good luck.