Canon DSLR for imaging

[Dave A]

All,

I am looking to get a new Canon DSLR camera ( does not have to be Canon ) for astrophotography/ imaging
Will focus on Lunar and planetary imaging first before looking at deep sky objects in the future.

There are better DSLR cameras on the market now for astrophotography - does anyone have an advice and recommendations

Thanks

Dave

[Carole]

My experience was that DSLR images of planets are that they are too small and bright for a DSLR so l used to use a dedicated planetary camera. 

However there may be some new options these days.

Carole

PS:  Note to self, always check spelling after typing on the phone!!!  (all amended now)

[Dave A]

Thanks Carole
I am sure there are better DSLR cameras now that are good for planets.
I have been searching on the internet but bit confusing with lots of options
Roberto may have some ideas.

Dave

[The Thing]

Hi Dave,

I concur with Carole. I have tried to use a DSLR for planetary in the dim distant past but its a waste of time. I don't know your level of knowledge but here's a quick brain dump of the essentials. Hope it helps your choice.

DSLRs are good for deep sky objects, larger galaxies, asterisms, constellations depending what lens/scope you use which determines the field of view you see on the chip.

Most planetary images are captured in a field of view around 600x600 pixels, maybe 1024x1024 if you have a suitable telescope. For example, I have mostly used (since 2009) an 8" Meade SCT (fl 2000mm f10) with a 2x barlow (fl now 4000mm f20) with a QHY5L-II colour camera (£120ish) (Pixel Size: 3.75um x 3.75um (1280 x 960) 1.2 Mega Pixels). Jupiter, the largest planet, is captured over around 1024x768 pixels, the rectangular format allows 1 or 2 moons to be captured as well (rarely 4, it's all about alignment!). There are newer suitable cameras with better chips...

Planetary images are also captured as a video stream at the fastest possible rate (100+ FPS). Liveview can't do this. I usually capture 10 or 20 sets of 5000 frames and then the processing software junks the worst 80%+ and combines the best bits of the rest. Beware, this is a lot of data.

Here's 800x500 example from last year, many others available on the Gallery

[Dave A]

Hi,

Not sure if I should call you The Thing as I do not know your real name

Many thanks for your information on this, it is very helpful.  I am a novice and only learning so this is great information for me.

Currently I use a Sky watcher scope- Maksutov Cassegrain reflector goto 127 aperture, but will probably look to upgrade to something better

You mention there are newer cameras with better chips, are these DSLR or dedicated Astro cameras like CMOS, do you recommend any ?

By the way what is the dark sky like where you are in France, I visited a friend who lives in Carcassonne to the south of France- really good dark skies with lots of visible stars

Unfortunately I live in Orpington Kent and it is Bortle 7 !!

Best Wishes

Dave   

[Carole]

Bortle scale is less important for planetary imaging.

The Thing = Duncan. 

Carole

[Dave A]

Thanks Carole

And thanks also Duncan 

[JohnH]

I did some solar system imaging a very long time ago. What I learned was that you are trying to image through a wobbly atmosphere. It is for this reason that you need a massive number of of very quick subframes. There will be a few which happen to catch clear sharp images which enhance the final stack. My understanding is that a DSLR would not cope - unless, I suppose, it can be used to create a video file of, preferably, low compression subframes. A planetary camera would be a much cheaper option and could be used on some brighter deep sky objects.

Other limitations are introduced by planetary rotation which is dealt with either by limiting the video file to a few minutes (depending on your target) or specialised processing in, eg, WINJUPOS.

The above is offered very much in the "for what it is worth" category of opinion!

Regards,

John

[Dave A]

John,

Thankyou so much for your information, knowledge and experience of planetary imaging- it is really helpful for a novice like me !!

I am thinking now that I definitely need to get a planetary camera- so will start researching

best wishes

Dave 

[Carole]

There is a page here on planetary cameras:

https://theplanets.org/best-planetary-cameras/

Most people add a Barlow to increase the image size.  I will also check our what my chum Geof Lewis uses (he is coming to do a planetary talk at OAS in June) and find out what he uses.  Make sure you don't miss the talk. 

Carole

[Carole]

OK Dave, this is the reply I got from my Planetary imager friend Geof Lewis (with other advice):

I use the ASI462MC (colour) camera. I think that has recently been superseded by the ASI662MC. The 462 is still available at some outlets, e.g. Widescreen Centre say they have it in stock. https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/zwo-asi462mc-usb30-colour-cmos-camera-with-autoguider-port.html. It needs to be used with IR/UV Cut or Lum filter. I bought the ZWO IR/UV cut filter, but actually have been using an Astronomic L filter as it does the same job.

I took a look at it, and it says it has a guide port too, so could also be utilised at a later date as a guide camera for Deep sky imaging.  Though most people recommend a mono guide camera as it is more sensitive.

Be warned, nothing is cheap in Astrophotography.  But the good news is there is a good second hand market, on UKAstroBuySell, or on Stargazers Lounge if you have enough posts to access it.  So you might be able to pick up a second hand one cheaper, or remember stuff can be sold at a later date if you want to upgrade kit. 

Hope this helps

Carole

[Carole]

Geof has also added the following:

I highly recommend these new colour planetary cameras, especially for someone just starting out with planetary imaging. It's so much easier to produce a high quality colour image than with a mono camera and RGB filters. The 462MC sensor is also very sensitive in IR, so both IR and CH4 (Methane) filters can be used with it. At CH4 wavelength the sensor is effectively mono as the bayer matrix filters over the sensor are invisible to at that wavelength and pass everything through.

[The Thing]

Be warned, nothing is cheap in Astrophotography. 

That's why I would get a cheapish camera to start, and I've got some scottish blood My first planetary camera was a Phillips 640x480 webcam, I even converted one to mono CCD and long exposure. Still got them somewhere.

I would love to have a new planetary camera but I have found that my main astro camera ASI294MC Pro (4/3 chip) does very well so I haven't bothered, 120fps at 600x600 ROI. The only downside is slightly bigger pixels than my QHY5L-II, 4.63um rather than 3.75um and smaller is better for planetary. 2.9um would be nice...

And yes you need to capture 1000s of frames to get the benefits of 'lucky imaging' and catch those elusive still air moments, so frames per second is important. The processing software sorts it out.

Duncan

P.S. At the moment there are no streetlights or flood lights on in most of France due to the 'sobriété enégetique' so it's very dark indeed Shame about the clouds 

[Carole]

My first planetary camera was a Phillips SPC camera, and my subsequent one was an Imaging Source DBK camera. but these may be "old hat" so hesitated to suggest them.

Lucky you with the darkness Duncan, have you measured the SQM?

Carole

[JohnH]

Most people add a Barlow to increase the image size.

When I did some planetary imaging I was using a Meade LX90 (8"). Normally is f10, I was using a 3x Barlow lens to image with a Philips webcam (a staggering 640 x 480 pixels as I recall). A modern camera will probably mean a much larger chip and could therefore take greater magnification - subject to the brightness of the target.

Nowadays I think that a colour camera is better. Bearing in mind that your image run will be limited by the rotation of the planet you probably will not want to mess around with colour filters during the run.

By the way, ZWO cameras have associated free software for imaging and stacking both deep sky and planetary targets.

John