Orpington Astronomical Society

Astronomy => Astrophotography => Topic started by: Mike on Aug 07, 2008, 11:30:25

Title: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Aug 07, 2008, 11:30:25
An imaging workshop is being organised for the 22nd November. This is to run from 3pm to 6pm and then outside to do some imaging if its clear. The day will be made up of short talks and demonstrations and a bit of time to sit around and chat and also show others what yiou have done, can do, etc.

I would specifically like the following people to do a talk or a demonstration if you are available please. Need be no more than 15-20 mins :-

Mark
Ian
Chris
Fay
Robert
Paul
John

If the day is a success we will look at doing one for the general public in 2009 and maybe trying to invite people like Nick Smzziznzziziizik (or however its spelt), Ian King, etc.

If you are one of the persons listed above (or even if your not and would like to contribute) please let me know ASAP. Thanks.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: JohnP on Aug 07, 2008, 11:46:05
Hi Mike,

I should be OK for that date - Where are you planning on holding this? Will it be at High Elms?

I could do a few slides on 'The basics' of constructing an LRGB image if you wanted... Nothing too technical just the 'nuts & bolts' of how you get a clour image from a B&W camera....

John
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Aug 07, 2008, 12:08:45
Yes it is at High Elms.

Thanks John that would be an excellent demonstration.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Aug 07, 2008, 12:10:39
BTW I am doing a talk on setting up the mount concentrating on Polar Alignment techniques.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: MarkS on Aug 07, 2008, 12:28:44

I should be O.K. for that date.  If so, I'm happy to contribute.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Aug 07, 2008, 12:35:30
Excellent. Thanks Mark. Can you do a talk on DSLR imaging and processing (shortened version of your one at the imaging session?)
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: RobertM on Aug 07, 2008, 12:59:28
It's a bit far away for me to know for sure whether I'd be available but I could possibly do one on Imaging Galaxies.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Ian on Aug 07, 2008, 13:20:01
Like Robert, I can't at the moment commit to being able to make it.

I can stand on my hind legs and do a bit, I propose my specialist topic is how to have all the kit and never actually obtain decent results.  :roll:

I could do something on optical physics maybe?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Carole on Aug 07, 2008, 13:25:59
Quotehow to have all the kit and never actually obtain decent results. 
I could do that one as I have had lots of "success" at this.

Could we have one on how to get decent images please.

Carole
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Aug 07, 2008, 14:10:26
Quote from: Carolepope on Aug 07, 2008, 13:25:59...Could we have one on how to get decent images please.....

That's the purpose of the whole day   :D
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Carole on Aug 07, 2008, 15:59:14
I was partly responding in joke form to what Ian said but what I personally would find very useful is how to set the controls within the software in order to get the right settings and why,  and what each control does. 

Tricks on getting the image actually on the chip even when it is dead centre in the eyepiece (something I am having lots of problems with, I don't think my webcam is looking at the same thing, Ian will tell you as it happened with my one and only image at DSC).  It makes a hell of a difference once you try to get a barlow on.

Quotesetting up the mount concentrating on Polar Alignment techniques
speaking personally I will find this one very useful.

I am coming as a pupil so am just stating things that I need some help with.

Carole








Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Aug 07, 2008, 16:44:41
Noted. We will make sure these topics are covered.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Carole on Aug 07, 2008, 22:17:33
many thanks

Carole
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Aug 15, 2008, 15:17:56
OK so far I have John and Mark only who have committed to a talk. I would appreciate the following letting me know if they would be willing to do something please?

Ian
Chris
Fay
Robert
John
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Rocket Pooch on Aug 15, 2008, 17:25:57
If I'm about I'll do something, how about noise reduction and assessing image quality?  Focusing and matching the kit to the camera....


Followed by spoon bending?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Aug 15, 2008, 17:28:00
All of that sounds great. However, we need to arrange the day so will need either a yes or a no to speaking ASAP please.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Rocket Pooch on Aug 15, 2008, 17:55:25
I can't plan that far out with work, sorry.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Ian on Aug 16, 2008, 09:22:05
I offered to do a slot, perhaps on some theory or physics. I don't image enough at the moment to warrant taking a slot to talk about that.

Like Chris I can't plan that far ahead and be certain, but it's in the diary.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Aug 20, 2008, 12:14:27
Mike, where is it being held? & to whom are you speaking, club members or public?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Aug 20, 2008, 12:46:36
It is at High Elms and it is for members only. If it is successful enough we will do one again in 2009 and make it a public one.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: RobertM on Aug 20, 2008, 13:36:13


I feel you need to come up with topics that need to be included rather than asking people what they are prepared to do.  It should start off with basics then move on to more advance techniques thereby being more coherent and having a thread joining them all together.

Example:

Equipment explained:
    Selecting a mount
    Selecting a telescope
    Choosing a CCD camera
    Matching equipment

Taking images (general):
    Signal and noise
    Image Scale
    Exposure

Planetary/Solar imaging:
   Image scale
   What we are trying to achieve
   Atmospheric effects and how they affect image quality
   Techniques

Autoguiding:
   What we are trying to achieve
   Equipment selection
   Calibration
   Guiding
   Experience (gotyas/gimmes)

Deep Sky imaging (maybe two or more parts):
   What we are trying to achieve
   Atmospheric effects
   Signal and noise
   Stacking and the various methods
   Problems ( gradients, vignetting and light pollution )
   Calibration (flat field, bias and darks)

Colour imaging:
   ...

Post processing (general):
   Histograms and stretching
   Digital post processing
   Curves/levels (PS)

Post processing:
   Planetary
   Stellar
   Galaxies
   Nebulae
   etc...





Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Carole on Aug 20, 2008, 13:46:18
I think Roberts suggestion is very sensible as there is no point in jumping in with more advanced things until we've covered the basics, and there could be people who are interested who haven't done anything at all.  For those who have started but are still learning like myelf, we can refresh what we've done and then pick it up at the point we are at. 

However I think we might need more than one day to cover all this.

Carole
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Aug 20, 2008, 14:07:35
That is exactly what we are trying to do. But without speakers willing to talk on various subjects we won't cover much at all. So far we only have 3 speakers.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: RobertM on Aug 20, 2008, 15:47:07
Sorry, I can't commit till about three weeks before.  I do travel abroad as needed so as you can appreciate it's difficult for me to do this so far in advance.

If you want to allocate me a topic then I'll prepare a presentation as I should be able to do it.

Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Sep 30, 2008, 11:57:23
Chris, Ian and Robert - Are you able to commit to this yet please? I need to be able to get the day sorted out and organise a meeting with the speakers in October to finalise the details.

Also, Paul, John, Tony, Mark, Fay, Mac - What about you doing short talks ?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Tony G on Sep 30, 2008, 12:59:31
Which Tony?

If it's me, I can do a talk on 'Items for sale on eBay that you don't need' and 'How can I utilise this gadget, so I can use it for astronomy somehow'. :D

Tony G
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Rocket Pooch on Sep 30, 2008, 14:19:58
i really won't know for a while yet...
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: MarkS on Sep 30, 2008, 15:50:10
Quote from: Mike
Paul, John, Tony, Mark, Fay, Mac - What about you doing short talks ?

I'll be there and willing to do a talk (preferably on something I know about!)
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Oct 12, 2008, 19:33:23
OK this is a final call for speakers. So far only myself and Mark are definite.

Can the remaining people please state if they can talk or not as we need to arrange a meeting very soon to organise the day and itinery.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mac on Oct 12, 2008, 22:01:10
Im going to have to say sorry, as at the moment my november is fully booked up.

Mac.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Oct 16, 2008, 08:12:10
OK so that leaves - Paul, John, Tony, Mark, Fay and Robert. Are any of you up for a short talk? 15-20 mins.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Oct 16, 2008, 10:08:41
Mike,

I am trying to get myself together, but fear I will be self concious to do it. I am still thinking.

Fay
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Oct 16, 2008, 11:26:37
Fay i'm sure you would be great. We can cut your talk down to 10-15 mins if that helps?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: RobertM on Oct 16, 2008, 13:03:54
Still don't know whether I'll be around on that date but I could prepare something and present it at the next imaging workshop if you like.  At least then I'd have something ready for the day if able to do it.  I would cover how I process from the camera to final image using luminance layering (Ha + RGB).

Would that be useful ?   
   
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Oct 16, 2008, 13:14:50
Yes please Robert. Then if you can make the 22nd Nov we can slot you in.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Carole on Oct 16, 2008, 13:41:11
Quotefear I will be self concious to do it.

I understand how you feel Fay, I would feel the same talking to my peers.
However I am sure you have lots of valuable experience you can convey to us and it would be a pity not to do it.  We'll treat you gently - promise.

Carole
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Oct 16, 2008, 16:11:50
Mike I will see what I can do. It would be a general opening talk, to lead into the specialised talks. I will let you know asap, as I know you have to have a definite plan.


Otherwise you will have to call in a clown or magician, or something.


Fay
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Oct 16, 2008, 16:15:22
Could always have Tony, as the warmup act, telling the joke he sent out today!
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Oct 16, 2008, 16:18:40
Fay remember that this is for members only, there won't be any strangers there.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: MarkS on Oct 16, 2008, 16:56:55

Ermm, really?  I think most of us are pretty strange ...
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Oct 16, 2008, 17:11:19
Erm, well yeah but I didn't want to be the one to say it.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Tony G on Oct 16, 2008, 20:26:12
Did you like that then, I'll have a look for some more to keep you amused  :D

I personally think you would be a good speaker, as you can explain to novices like me the transition between web cams and astro camera's, as you have done this quickly and produced some great images. So go for it.

Tony G
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 01, 2008, 22:20:58
OK those of you that have committed to talking, we need to get together to discuss the agenda of the day. I suggest a day next week or week after if possible. Any preferences for you guys?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Nov 02, 2008, 08:55:25
Whenever, Mike
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: MarkS on Nov 02, 2008, 09:44:47
Most evenings would suit but preferably not a Friday.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 03, 2008, 08:46:31
OK how about Monday 17th Nov?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Nov 03, 2008, 08:53:04
Ok Mike
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 03, 2008, 12:00:27
Great. Mark and Robert what about you?

Chris, Paul, Ian and John, are you able to contribute?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: RobertM on Nov 03, 2008, 13:04:08
Yes the 17th is a probability, can't make it a definite though.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: MarkS on Nov 04, 2008, 06:05:22

Mon 17th is good for me.

Mark
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 04, 2008, 09:17:08
OK lets make it Monday 17th at 8pm at my house.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Nov 13, 2008, 13:34:59
I may be half hour late, Mike.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 13, 2008, 14:02:02
ok
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: JohnP on Nov 13, 2008, 16:09:36
Mike I can't make Monday but I can still do a 15min slot on the Sat if you want... I'll leave you to pick a topic for me... You know the stuff I do.. Webcam, modified Webcam, dedicated Astro Cam (on a budget)... etc... Let me know if you want me to suggest a few titles or if not send me a few after Mon & I'll pick one... Just make sure I have a few days to put something together...

John
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 13, 2008, 16:28:57
John. Thanks for the offer. We will decide what you can talk about on Monday and let you know straight away if that's OK with you?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: JohnP on Nov 13, 2008, 16:30:24
yep no prob's... thks,  John
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 19, 2008, 09:21:12
For those of you that are coming on Saturday, and I recommend that you do as it will be a fun day the speakers will be :-

1. Fay - Overview of Astrophotography from the perspective of someone new to the hobby. Pitfalls, etc.
2. Mike - Whirlwind tour of setting up and the kit used.
3. John - Planetary iamging using webcams.
4. Mark - Imaging using DSLR's
5. Robert - Imaging using Cooled CCD's and Ha processing overview.

There will be drinks and nibbles provided and breaks in between John and Mark (with short comfort breaks in between all speakers). We have 3 hours to pack this all in. Practical demonstrations will be given to those that require it.

After 6pm, weather permitting (and the forecast for Saturday is looking promising), we will all go outside or up to the top field to do some astrophotography for real.

it should be a good and informative day for anyone interested in astrophotography. Even if you have no intention of ever doing it, but are curios as to what is invovled and how it is done then come along and enjoy the day. The content is aimed at novice to intermediate levels.

Hopefully I will see you there.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Carole on Nov 19, 2008, 21:30:56
Should be bring our own equipment if we have it?

Also, I believe the afternoon starts at 3pm High Elms am I right?

Carole
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 19, 2008, 22:48:30
Yes it starts at 3pm.

As for bringing your kit, that is entirely up to you!
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Nov 21, 2008, 13:03:17
Mike, will the barrier be up, from the side carpark, to enable parking outside the centre, for getting equipment out?

Or will the entrance, on the main road, be open?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 21, 2008, 13:30:23
I will be getting down there for about 2.30 and i believe Jimn is also. We both have gate keys so you can drive right in and park up at the centre.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mac on Nov 22, 2008, 20:52:05
I would just like to say thank you to everyone, for all their time and effort.

Mac.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Carole on Nov 22, 2008, 21:12:52
A most informative afternoon.  Many thanks to those who gave up their time to share their knowledge with others and many thanks to Mike for his organisation.

I am gradually piecing it all together so that when I am ready to progress further I have a good understanding of what is what and what I need.

Carole
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 22, 2008, 23:30:59
Glad you found it of use. Thanks to all the speakers.

Mark and I have just left the field where we were till about 11:20. It was -1 when I left.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: MarkS on Nov 23, 2008, 00:36:26
For those who didn't stay in the field afterwards - this is what you missed:

(http://gallery.orpington-astronomy.org.uk/albums/userpics/10046/m33preview.jpg)

20 x 5min, modified Canon EOS 350D on Celestron C11 with F6.3 focal reducer and CLS filter.  Image scaled down by factor of 3 and slightly cropped.

It's M33 of course.  It's just a quick preview - I need to do some further work on the image, for instance a bluish left to right gradient.

Mark
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Rocket Pooch on Nov 23, 2008, 08:56:51
very good i would not complain.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Nov 23, 2008, 08:58:39
Mark, I am really jealous!!!!!!!!!! Fantastic. So good with the Canon, as good as with a dedicated ccd.

I really enjoyed yesterday, although, yet to hear all of Robert's presentation. Perhaps he can do it at the next members evening.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Tony G on Nov 23, 2008, 10:14:54
Thanks to all the speakers yesterday.
Still finding that there are basic things to get better images, and I'm starting to understand a bit more on what is required to process an image.
Sorry I missed your bit Fay, I was looking forward to that, but the rest were very informative.

Thanks Mike for setting this up, and hopefully we could have something similar in the future.

Tony G
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Nov 23, 2008, 10:53:16
Mike,

did you get an image?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Mike on Nov 23, 2008, 13:28:30
I don't want to talk about it. Leave me alone :(
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: JohnP on Nov 23, 2008, 13:42:18
Great Image Mark - Lots of lovely Ha regions showing & great image scale.... Definitely worth staying late... I was drinking wine & watching DVD - I was thinking of you both.. I almost set up myself about 11'ish but it was just too cold.... :-(

Mike - did you get anything....?

John

PS - Thks to all the other speakers yesterday & to Mike for organizing it & Cris for the tea & coffee etc... it was a pleasant afternoon...
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: MarkS on Nov 23, 2008, 14:02:43
I've reprocessed M33 to remove the background gradient and to apply some mild Gaussian deconvolution to sharpen the image.

On the gallery here:
http://gallery.orpington-astronomy.org.uk/displayimage-683.html

Image here:
http://gallery.orpington-astronomy.org.uk/albums/userpics/10046/m33_221108.jpg

Details as before:  20 x 5min, modified Canon EOS 350D on Celestron C11 with F6.3 focal reducer and CLS & IR filters.  Ambient temperature 1C.  Image scaled down by factor of 3 and slightly cropped.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: The Thing on Nov 23, 2008, 14:04:41
Lovely image Mark,

It was too damn chilly for me on that field,I would have hung around if I was dressed for it. I went home,put on my thermals and set up my scope. Got some nice views of the Little Dumbell and M31, 35, 36, 37, 38, 42, 44, and 45.
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: Fay on Nov 23, 2008, 14:58:04
Come on Mike, get a grip, & tell us what happened. We need details!
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: RobertM on Nov 23, 2008, 21:17:39
Thanks to Fay, Mike, John and Mark for their interesting talks.

That's not too shabby an image from an uncooled camera Mark, I'd be more than happy with that excellent result anytime.  Well done !
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: MarkS on Nov 23, 2008, 22:15:45

Robert,

But the camera was cooled - Mike, Duncan and I can all testify to how cold in was in that field on Saturday night!

Thanks for you comments.

Mark
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: RobertM on Nov 23, 2008, 22:31:09
Mark, I was going to say 'naturally aspirated' but you're right and they were ideal conditions for a DSLR.

That's getting towards to quality of a cooled camera without the fuss of taking four different sets of images.  Did you do darks, flats etc ?
Title: Re: Imaging Workshop - 22nd November
Post by: MarkS on Nov 24, 2008, 05:54:07

Yes, I used darks , flats etc.  But I took a shortcut and reused the darks and flats from a previous image.

Mark