My first image of Jupiter

[Carole]

Taken tonight around midnight. Lots of problems getting anything on the chip at all, a common problem I have encountered, but think I've finally cracked what the problem has been all along.  When I flip the mirror over from lens to rear port, I've now realised it doesn't always click all the way and therefore it was looking at nothing when I thought it was dark sky and image not on the chip. It doesn't help when the webcam is not sensitive enough to pick out the stars, otherwise I might have sussed this a long time ago. 

Even managed to get Jupiter on the barlow this time, but could not focus it at all.  I have not posted that image as it's very fuzzy.

STILL it's all progress and learning.

I also even managed to remember some of what my settings were (I think!)
168 of 222 frames@ 15fps
(I think it was the following: min shutter speed,3/4 brightness, 1/4 gain)

Stacked in Registax, could not seem to get much improvement with wavelets or PS, would welcome some help with that.



Carole

[MarkS]

Well done Carole, that's excellent work!  It's a good clear image. 

Posted at 2:30am - you're getting as bad as me!

[Carole]

Posted at 2:30am - you're getting as bad as me!

Yes Mark, I was thinking exactly the same thing at 2.30 in the morning.  But I was determined to finish the job before I went to bed.  I feel wrecked this morning and have to go to work!!!

Carole

[Ian]

fantastic 1st go! Getting the exposure set right is usually the downfall and you appear to have got that just about spot on.

What I would say though is, use 5fps. The USB bandwidth from the camera isn't big enough to carry 15fps without compression, at 15fps the camera is throwing away detail before it even gets to the PC. But that does mean that you have to wait longer to get a good number of frames.

[Fay]

Carole, I am very happy for you, a great image. Join the rest of the worn out, I feel awful as well, this morning!!!!!!


Got my image processing at the moment, don't know how it will be as I had a few problems...................what's new!

Fay

[Mike]

Nice one Carole. Again, far better than my first attempt at Jupiter. Keep up the good work. We don't have any really active planetery imagers in the club at the moment (though i'm trying to convince Colin to take it up) as most people do the wide field stuff so it's nice to see some pics of Jupiter.

[Fay]

Who's Colin, Mike?

Fay

[RobertM]

Excellent image Carole, Jupiter's so low at the moment I can't even see it behind the trees.

[Mike]

Colin Warner.

[Carole]

use 5fps. The USB bandwidth from the camera isn't big enough to carry 15fps without compression, at 15fps the camera is throwing away detail before it even gets to the PC.

thanks for that information Ian, that's the sort of stuff I wouldn't have a clue about.  So it looks like I need to take a longer video but only 5fps.

Jupiter's so low at the moment I can't even see it behind the trees

It was a bit of a juggling act, I set everything up before it rose, and then try to image between trees.

I still have the original AVIs so hoping some-one will see if I can process better, plus the one I did with the barlow.

Carole

[Tony G]

Carole,

Great image, and by the looks of it lately you are becoming nocturnal than the local badgers. I'm in agreement with Ian, that 5 fps or even 10 fps tend to give you more info when processing in registax, but the object you are imaging on the laptop is also brighter when viewing at these frame settings, and so I find it makes it easier to get the image back into the FOV, if you do lose it from the laptop screen for any reason.

Keep up the good work.

Tony G

[Delphine]

Well done Carol,  I am really impressed with your image.  You have more dedication than I have staying up until 2.30 in the morning! 

[Carole]

I was following the example of some of my peers.  I also decided that if you really want to do this you have to get up in the early hours sometimes.  I had to do that when I was doing my Moon phases project for the GCSE otherwise I never got the waning gibbous and waning crescent phases. 

I want to image the other side of the moon but not when it is a full moon as I want shadows, so I can see another early hours session coming up at some point.

Roll on retirement.

Carole

[Mac]

i can always give you an early morning alarm call at 03:30 if you want,
im still working at that time.

[Carole]

Thanks Mac I'll let you know if I need you.

Fancy working all night, I did that years ago and it didn't do my health much good.  So when do you fit in your Astronomy?

Carole

[Carole]

Thought I'd have a go at processing the image I did last as welll with the barlow which looked pretty awful to me, but I have made a reasonable improvement in photoshop.  Just wondered what you guys think as I often think something is rubbish and get surprising feedback.

This is a before and after processing with photoshop image.

Carole

[Carole]

Think I'm suffering from that late night last night

last as welll

This should have said "last night as well"

[Ian]

I think with a little more processing you'll have a fantastic image there Carole, it's surprising how much information there is under the dross of a raw. You might have a couple of frames that didn't align properly but I'd use that as evidence that you can image very successfully with an ETX and a webcam.

[mickw]

I agree with Ian, it looks like one or more frames are not being aligned properly.
You could try halving the frames, stacking each half seperately to try and identify then omit the offending frames.

I am of course clueless with astrophotography 

[Carole]

You might have a couple of frames that didn't align properly

Yes, I thought there was something not quite right on the left side. 
However the tracking was quite good,  but I have to confess I am still using Alt -Az alignment as I have not quite got to grips with polar mode alignment and it's just easier to use the method I can use easily. 

I noticed last night,  especially when I was tracking without the barlow, that Jupiter was very steady in the same place, but every so often it would jump (a bit like a cardiac monitor) and come back to the same place, so I guess that's a quirk of the alt/az tracking.  If I am right, then maybe this is what has happened here and it has shown up more because of the higher magnification. 

Does any-one understand what I am rattling on about, as I can't phrase it in the technical terms all you guys use?

Carole

[Carole]

You could try halving the frames, stacking each half seperately to try and identify then omit the offending frames

Not quite sure how to do that, but hopefully some-one will be able to show me.

In K3 you can select which frames you want to use, so you effectively can loose all the rubbish ones, but then K3 processing had it's own drawbacks and I got fed up with it and stopped using it.  I have been using Registax more recently as it does all the hard work for you.  I am sure there is a way/

Carole

[Ian]

that jumping is just a feature of the telescope drive. It occurs in all, but it's severity is one measure of quality of the drive system. If it happens regularly it's called periodic error. You'll have noticed that Chris S (spacedog) seems to prattle on about it quite regularly. That's mostly because he keeps buying new kit  

Registax should take care of aligning the frames wherever they are in the frame, but might have had a hiccup or two if they're a long way away from the others.

edit for spelling

[mickw]

In K3 can't you click on a frame to deselect it (choose not to use it) ?
Apart from finding the problem by elimination - 1/2 and 1/2, you could look through all frames and deselect really out of whack ones.

The ghost image also seems to have some rotation so I'm guessing it will either be at the start or end of the total capture.

I don't beleive alt/az will affect what you are doing.

As I said, I know bugger all, but what I said seems logical

[Mike]

Alt/Az won't affect your ability to image planets. However, it will greatly affect your tracking and make it near on impossible to track properly. I would suggest use the Equatorial Mode. It's easy once you know how.

[Carole]

Hi Mike,

I am going to persevere with the equatorial mode, but didn't want to have too many problems to contend with all at the same time.  As I said in actual fact the tracking was pretty steady on this occasion using Alt/Az, but I agree that is not always the case. 

Now I am starting to iron out some of the frustrations with imaging I'll have another crack at it, but probably not on Friday as I think it's going to take me some practice to get the hang of it and don't want to mess up any imaging opportunities.

The last time I tried to use equatorial mode was actually in your garden at an imaging session a few months ago, and after wasting about an hour I gave up and went back to alt/az.  I have in fact only successfully managed to use it once so far.

But I do hear what you say.

Carole

[Carole]

Hi Mick,

In K3 can't you click on a frame to deselect it (choose not to use it) ?

Yes you can, see my post above

In K3 you can select which frames you want to use, so you effectively can loose all the rubbish ones,

But I don't use k3 for processing any more (only imaging) as I had a lot of problems with the alignment box so I gave up and started using Registax which I don't have any problems with at all.  But there is still a lot I need to learn on Registax, such as what you are suggesting.  I am sure it can be done but need to find out how.  Registax does tend to drop the bad frames for you in any case.

Thanks
Carole

[Carole]

I think with a little more processing you'll have a fantastic image there Carole

Any volunteers to help me with this as I think I have exhausted all the processing know how I have to improve the image.

Carole

[Carole]

No voluteers then?

Ian can you suggest any further processing, I did all the things in image adjust in photoshop.  Would Iris have something further, not that I've ever used it?

Just to complete the set in this thread, a picture of Jupiter, io, Europa and Ganymede (also posted on this month's imaging challenges).


Carole

[MarkS]

It looks good Carole.

I'm unable to suggest anything.  I also managed to capture Jupiter and 4 moons last night but however I process the image I either get:
1) A white disc and 4 moons
2) Detail on Jupiter but no moons visible

I've tried dynamic range scaling of various types and I've also tried Photoshop curves but all to no avail.  There's simply too much dynamic range in the image.

[Ian]

The theory is, because the moons are illuminated at the same distance as Jupiter by the same light source, they should be visible in the image. But, telescope resolution and focussing starts to come into play together with seeing and transparency. I would say Mark has a better chance of doing it with his 11", but whether or not it's even possible with an ETX, I don't know.

What I do know is it's possible with an 8" reflector, I did it quite a few years ago. Jupiter was higher in the sky then, which also would have helped...

[Carole]

I also managed to capture Jupiter and 4 moons last night but however I process the image I either get:
1) A white disc and 4 moons
2) Detail on Jupiter but no moons visible

that's exactly what I got, both on capture and on processing, so the only way was to do as Mike suggested and do a composite of the two (as above).

Mark, I have sent you an E mail about downloading Iris to see whether I can do anything more with that to my image done with the barlow.

Very frustrated that I couldn't get out to do any imaging the last two evenings with such fab skies (Post-op husband), lets hope it holds out for this evening.

Carole