I decided to do some imaging tonight (my hand has recovered sufficiently from the operation) but the sky quality was pretty bad - very murky with an SQM reading of 20.6 - so I would describe this as a practice run.
Walking out to the obsy at 18:20 I noticed a train of bright objects moving through the sky - 10 of them in all. I checked on Heavens Above and sure enough it was Starlink - launch 3. Apparently there should have been lots more but I just caught the final 10.
Here are the details from Heavens Above (location Greenwich):
https://www.heavens-above.com/AllPassesFromLaunch.aspx?lat=51.4934&lng=0.0098&loc=Greenwich&alt=0&tz=GMT
The sequence I saw ended with Starlink AN and they were all 10-15secs apart. Plenty more opportunities in the early evening over the coming days. Well worth checking out because visually they actually look quite spectacular and it gives us an unfortunate and terrible preview into the future.
Mark
Great to hear you are improved enough to start getting back into the "saddle".
It makes grim prospects. I have been in a conversation on Astrobin about it, and we have all signed the petition I attached on another thread. During which time I did some internet searching and found an E mail address for ESO who had got involved (European Southern Observatory), it was the Communications Officer, so I E mailed him telling him about all the 1000s of amateur astronomers and imagers who will be affected, not to mention the retailers, manufacturers and astro holiday places like Ollys and Astrofarm etc who might lose business if people gave up astronomy because of it.
Upshot was he skyped me and we had a face to face conversation about it.
He says the professional astronomers have been in communication with Space Ex who are experimenting with a non-reflective coating on one of the satelittes, but are worried about it causing over heating.
He suggested we got all the retailers involved since he felt loss of business would be a bigger influence than loss of hobby, and so I am starting to contact the same, but it would be good if others could help.
So far only managed to contact Deep Sky West who have yet to reply, and since then I have been back and forth to Swanley (Dave who comes to Cairds) for a mini astro weekend where he has Bortle 6 skies and no tree in the way of Orion. Am on my 4th and last day there tonight.
Any further ideas Mark and any-one else. I can see imaging and Astronomy being a no-go in a few years time unless software can deal with all the satelitte trails.
Carole
Depending on cloud cover, tonight provides another good opportunity to see them. The spacing between them has increased but from 17:30 to 18:30 sixty Starlink satellites will pass over. The first 40 satellites come in a 10 minute period but they might be difficult to see against the dusk sky.
Details here:
https://www.heavens-above.com/AllPassesFromLaunch.aspx?lat=51.4934&lng=0.0098&loc=Greenwich&alt=0&tz=GMT
The early ones will come up close to Venus but this will increase to approx. 20 degrees left of Venus.
They pass over for a second time from 19:00 onwards but they will be lower in the sky and dimmer.
Mark
Here's the video: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uq3WlcLf7zalrUSirxJRGyMw9qLRfsh8
Tuesday 21-Jan-2020 starting at around 17:29 GMT and finishing 11 minutes later.
Nikon 35mm lens on Nikon Z6 at ISO 800 F/5.6
135 exposures of 5sec each, pushed 2.5 stops in processing.
A train of 40 Starlink satellites passed across the sky during this time. Visually I observed a line of 15 satellites in the sky simultaneously. At magnitude 3.0 they were pretty bright.
For best quality, download the video file and play it locally on your device.
Mark
This is shocking! It looks like anti-aircraft tracers! :!
Quote from: Roberto on Jan 22, 2020, 17:29:56
This is shocking! It looks like anti-aircraft tracers! :!
ditto - nasty Are we sure it's not a Tie fghter having a go at an xWing? Might be a cover story put out by Musk as part of the 'government conspiracy' or maybe its just a ploy by flat earthers to stop astronomers looking at the heavens and bleating on about round planets and stars being a the centre of solar systems. I think we should be told!
Meanwhile maybe some clever mathematician type bod can come up with a neural network algorithm thing like the new Star Remover tool to remove the trails. I suspect they will appear in every sub and several subs as they go round and round once they are spread out. I wonder how many will be sharing each final orbit?
Quote from: The Thing on Jan 23, 2020, 09:36:57
Quote from: Roberto on Jan 22, 2020, 17:29:56
This is shocking! It looks like anti-aircraft tracers! :!
Meanwhile maybe some clever mathematician type bod can come up with a neural network algorithm thing like the new Star Remover tool to remove the trails. I suspect they will appear in every sub and several subs as they go round and round once they are spread out. I wonder how many will be sharing each final orbit?
Phase 1 will have 72 orbits with 22 satellites in each, making 1584 in total. Assuming they are equally spaced that means in any one orbit there will be a satellite every 4 minutes - not one every 15sec like my video. But the final total could be up to 42,000 satellites!!
Look at the Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
Even so, it won't be an issue for deep-sky-object imaging because we routinely remove satellite trails with sigma stacking - we do this anyway with the geostationary satellites that afflict imaging of Orion. Once the sun is sufficiently below the horizon we won't see the Starlink satellites because they'll be in the earth's shadow - just like the ISS which is never visible deep in the night in Winter. The Summer months will be a problem though because just like the ISS they'll be visible all night long.
It's the astro-landscape folk that will be most affected because they take wide views and they don't tend to take sufficient exposures to remove the trails by sigma stacking.
Mark
Interesting maybe its not as bad as reported?
When i tried the site at Cairds, so none visible here??
https://m.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=717467825454668&id=100015743704118&set=a.125624174639039&source=48
Roger
This is not my image, but just look what some-one posted on astrobin casued by the Starlink satelittes.
(https://cdn.astrobin.com/thumbs/KJsU9Jvey1TB_1824x0_dhd6X3fE.jpg)
Where abouts in the world was this as according to the starlink reporting site none are viewable from here at Cairds at the moment?
Roger
Switzerland apparently.
But I was showing more for a view of the future as more and more are installed.
Carole
That looks like M106, if so I imaged there the other night and caught very few satellites...
It's all about the time of night, and how far below the horizon the Sun is. These satellites are in low Earth orbit, so they will be in eclipse for some of the night, at least in winter. As we come into summer and the length of full night is short, they'll be more bothersome.
I guess one trick to avoiding them more easily would be to go imaging somewhere close to the equator where twilight is short...
I was setting for imaging up tonight (Sun 19 April) and a whole train (20 or more) passed through the head of Leo at around 21:30BST. They were brighter than almost every star in the sky. Heavens Above indicates they'll be back tomorrow (Mon 20 April) around 22:00BST, all of them around mag 1.9
Mark
Quote from: MarkS
I was setting for imaging up tonight (Sun 19 April) and a whole train (20 or more) passed through the head of Leo at around 21:30BST. They were brighter than almost every star in the sky. Heavens Above indicates they'll be back tomorrow (Mon 20 April) around 22:00BST, all of them around mag 1.9
Mark
The batch tonight (Monday 20 April) will be in the North - passing just below Ursa Major. 35 will pass over in a 20 minute period beginning at 22:00BST. You will see a whole long line of them strung across the sky.
I might try to make another timelapse.
Mark
Saw them - thought it might be the ISS at first, then noticed the others following, just above regulus.
they are going to become a problem, must have gone on for over 10 minutes..
Noel
Me too. I thought it was the ISS at first but then I noticed some ahead of it and some behind it.
Mark
Ive just found out about these satellites. there may be up to 40,000! are they having a laugh....... say goodbye to imaging...
Hi Mark
Thanks for locating the Starlink satellites position last night. I sat in the garden at 2200 and watched them come over for a while. They were eyesight visible but, unless I wasn't seeing all of them (my sky is quite light polluted as living on a corner I have street lights on two sides), spread quite wide apart, so that they were seeming to come over individually ~ just all in the same direction. Probably several minutes between them.
Best
Hugh
Quote from: Hugh
Thanks for locating the Starlink satellites position last night. I sat in the garden at 2200 and watched them come over for a while. They were eyesight visible but, unless I wasn't seeing all of them (my sky is quite light polluted as living on a corner I have street lights on two sides), spread quite wide apart, so that they were seeming to come over individually ~ just all in the same direction. Probably several minutes between them.
I saw only a handful as well. I don't know what happened but Heavens Above was
extremely optimistic about their brightness. I examined the sequential camera exposures later and found that a whole train of very faint satellites did pass through with approx. 30 sec intervals. Maybe the sun had set too far or maybe non-reflective parts of the satellites were illuminated.
Mark
I did look out for them last night but did not see any
OMG they are everywhere now that days are getting longer! I had to throw many frames from the objects I was imaging just after dusk and before dawn. I started imaging in Ha at -1hr before astronomical dusk and they were crossing high above near the zenith. At dawn when I'm imaging Vulpecula to the lower Eastern horizon, they are crossing there also... :! I can tell it's Starlink because there are several parallel streaks across my images - unlike the old satellite trails that were one-offs.
Roberto
How's your night sky looking? The Reg chats to astroboffin Mark McCaughrean about Starlink and leaving a mark
UK residents have been able to see Starlink satellites – there are more than 300 in orbit so far – passing, and sometimes flaring, in the night sky over the last few days. Which could be a bit of a problem as far as amateur and professional astronomers are concerned. Or perhaps a boon.
More: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/22/esa_mark_mccaughrean_on_starlink/
The latest batch of 60 were launched yesterday. They should pass through Leo tonight (Thur 23 April) at around 20:55 BST. They'll be close together and very bright but will the sky be dark enough to see them?
Mark
Last night's TSGARC Zoom meeting ended just in time for everyone to go outside looking for one of last night's trains. No idea whether anyone saw any of them though. Might hear next week...
Quote from: MarkS
The latest batch of 60 were launched yesterday. They should pass through Leo tonight (Thur 23 April) at around 20:55 BST. They'll be close together and very bright but will the sky be dark enough to see them?
I didn't see any. Another "no-show".
I did not see them either..
Didn't look,
Did not appear on any subs in two nights,
So peachy,
Roger
Got them!!
Barely visible to the naked eye but the camera saw them clearly. The whole train from the 22 April launch passed over tonight. Video will be uploaded later ...
Mark
Think i`ve been tangoed , bloody starlink.
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94257129_742452692956181_1075192913060691968_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_eui2=AeHj8loMFwdXSw0tXBVJV6dCMgWk_Ig-N6MyBaT8iD43o40yUwUHybnWw3ADgipJwgPndzB-qWRZNmskGGBVZpRM&_nc_ohc=7scuK30UoTsAX_8PsAe&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=3507b2a7a76fbce96a79a103f7d76d65&oe=5EC6FCF1)
1 x 300s sub
Roger
Video is here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sT_jVbASGKhjog2Z0B1T147OD5gHSoOt
Better quality is available by downloading it first before playing it.
Shot in 4K HDR on Nikon Z6 with Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro lens then downsampled to 1280x720 because the 1.5GB file was a bit too big to upload!
The satellites passed over at approx. 20:58 BST and were barely visible to the naked eye against a sky that was nowhere near dark (only 45min after sunset). You can see they are still tightly bunched together since it is only a short time after the launch. The field of view is approximately 20 degrees.
Mark
Quote from: MarkS on Apr 25, 2020, 01:53:53
Better quality is available by downloading it first before playing it.
Shot in 4K HDR on Nikon Z6 with Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro lens then downsampled to 1280x720 because the 1.5GB file was a bit too big to upload!
Thanks for that. It would only play at all once I'd downloaded it, but it's a manageable size and gives a good impression. :)
Mark, in your opinion, will these satellites once they have reached their planned orbital distance from Earth, do you think they will be like other satellites - in that stacking software will be able to process them out, or are we doomed as far as Astrophotography is concerned?
Carole
Quote from: Carole
Mark, in your opinion, will these satellites once they have reached their planned orbital distance from Earth, do you think they will be like other satellites - in that stacking software will be able to process them out, or are we doomed as far as Astrophotography is concerned?
Yes, they will be removed by sigma stacking. I therefore don't think it will be a huge problem for our kind of astrophotography. It will be a bigger problem for photographers doing wide astro-landscapes but even then they tend to take multiple exposures so it will be possible to remove the trails.
Mark
Thanks Mark, that's a relief, lots of money tied up in imaging equipment.
I have finally found a method of processing out satellite trails and as you say it is Sigma, but it was in a slightly different place to the the Sigma stacking I had ticked in Astroart, but now I have found the right thing to tick it seems to work on most trails.
Carole
The Starlink launches was a subject discussed today on a radio comedy panel game ~ during which it was noted that an anagram of Elon Musk was Lone Skum?
Keep the pics coming
Best
Hugh
I fully expect a plugin for Photoshop - if someone can produce something as ludicrous as Start Spikes Pro then Starlink should be childs play :gaffer:
QuoteI fully expect a plugin for Photoshop - if someone can produce something as ludicrous as Start Spikes Pro then Starlink should be childs play :gaffer:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Starlink satellites to get sunshades to dim down their brightness:
https://www.livescience.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-sunshades.html
Carole
This is shocking, some-one posted this up on Astrobin:
(https://cdn.astrobin.com/thumbs/KJsU9Jvey1TB_16536x16536_x_KYLEcW.jpg)
what length of sub was it?
Roger
Quote from: Carole
This is shocking, some-one posted this up on Astrobin
Yes it's shocking. I found it on Astrobin and it's a single 10min sub from a long imaging run. Similar subs will become more and more frequent over the coming months and years. The good news is that pixel rejection techniques during stacking (e.g. sigma stacking) should entirely eliminate those satellite trails.
Mark
Also the muskites are allegedly making them non reflective , but not sure if its retroactive , probably not,
Roger
Well good news from last night.
I got this in a 900sec Ha sub last night, the consensus on SGL was that it was a SpaceEx group of satellites, It's certainly not typical of a plane.
Single sub stretched in Maxim software (and yes I know now there is no H in Gecko, I was sure I saw it spelt with an h recently):
(https://stargazerslounge.com/uploads/monthly_2020_06/image.png.754ddb67b376ea3dce3cb542033a402d.png)
The good news is my software processed it out as I used the sub in the stack. Using Sigma average stacking 1.8 in Astroart.
NB: Image not ready to properly process yet, need at least 1 or more nights on it.
Carole
They're getting worse... https://twitter.com/djulik/status/1286053695956881409
...and Amazon are, apparently, getting in on the act, too.
See topic here: http://forum.orpington-astronomy.org.uk/index.php?topic=12100.0
I am simply beyond amazement that this has all been allowed....... has there been any opposition? Have not heard a peep. how can we wish for darker skies when all this lot are ruining the skies forever. also do they pose a danger to spacestation etc etc?
Fay
There has certainly been opposition, especiall from professional astronomers. Google something like "starlink protest" and you'll find some. However, unlike things like light pollution from streetlights, this is all being caused by a few big companies with bases primarily in the USA, and they don't listen much (if at all) to opposition from elsewhere. TBH, they don't even listen much to any protests from within the US.
Here's an interesting side-view from El Reg...
What would you prefer: Satellite-streamed cat GIFs – or a decent early warning of an asteroid apocalypse?
Swarms of small communications satellites saturating space may make it more difficult to observe and track potentially hazardous asteroids zooming toward Earth, astronomers have warned.
A report [PDF] out this week compiled by the Satellite Constellations 1 (SATCON1) committee outlined the repercussions of the growing number of metallic birds in low-Earth orbit (LEO) on astronomy.
The high reflectivity of these satellites ruins images of the night sky, as far-away objects are covered by bright streaks leftover from the passage of the satellites. The effect was noticed as soon as SpaceX flung its first constellation of 60 internet-relaying satellites into the heavens last year. That number has steadily risen to 655 as of this month. And with tens of thousands more on the way, the astronomical community is racing to come up with solutions to minimize their impact on science.
More: https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/27/satellite_constellation_astronomy_warning/
This video clip was shown during the Global Meteor Network meeting on Saturday last. It shows a Starlink re-entry as captured by an astronomy live-stream in Japan a week or so ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJJUz5amEGE&t=677s
This noght-long time-lapse from a UKMon camera was posted on twitter because, apart from a lot of cloud, the one event most obvious in it is a stream of recently launched Starlink satellites at around 52 seconds in...
https://twitter.com/UKMeteorNetwork/status/1662141546463105024
I've also seen videos where a patch of sky gets covered in twinkles as a bunch of Starlink satellites reflect the Sun towards the observer. All ways to make astrophotography trickier. :(