Orpington Astronomical Society

Society => Announcements, Meetings, Events => Topic started by: RobertM on Jan 23, 2015, 16:35:50

Title: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Jan 23, 2015, 16:35:50
I'm thinking of taking my star adventurer out tonight if it stays clear.  Does anyone know a place that's suitable within 10 miles or so ?

Somewhere not too exposed and free of car headlights ideally.

Thanks
Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Jan 23, 2015, 16:44:58
I would be interested in joining you. Also in Orpington. I use Cudham and Otford as dark sites (with some limitations).
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: The Thing on Jan 23, 2015, 16:51:15
Big if. According to the Met Office app you have about an hour. However tomorrow night...
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Jan 23, 2015, 16:55:21
Quote from: The Thing on Jan 23, 2015, 16:51:15
Big if. According to the Met Office app you have about an hour. However tomorrow night...

Ah yes, just looked at the satellite :(

Tomorrow night might be better :)

Thanks Kenny, there is a possibility for tomorrow evening.  I'll only be going for an hour or two max - I don't want my nadgers frozen !

Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: mickw on Jan 23, 2015, 16:57:44
I believe the sports field next to the pub in Cudham (where we had a christmas meal a couple of years ago - can't remember the name - Blacksmiths ?) is pretty dark and is also used by another society.

The carpark is locked but can be accessed by a key held by the pub (also by the same key as high elms)
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Jan 23, 2015, 17:13:09
Thanks Mick
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Jan 23, 2015, 17:35:10
Yes, it's the Blacksmith's Arms. That's the Cudham site I use. Parking in the pub carpark is also allowed as long as a) you spend some money in the pub and b) you don't use up all the parking spaces.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Jan 24, 2015, 10:52:42
p.s. I just heard there is open public access to Knole Park 24x7 though no car access after dark. But usable if you have portable kit like DSLR and tripod or a small scope and don't mind humping it 1/4 mile.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Jan 24, 2015, 15:46:40
I'm probably going out observing / exploring tonight. Appears Doug and Rose may be too. Anyone else near Orpington looking for some dark skies tonight?
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Jan 24, 2015, 15:57:44
Where and what time ?

I'll most likely only be there for an hour or two and not too late.

Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Jan 24, 2015, 16:12:19
Depends on your target. I'm flexible. Comet Lovejoy will be due south around 6.30pm (it's highest point), good viewing of Jupiter from 7.30ish, but the Moon won't set until 10-ish.

I also want to walk into Knole Park (no cars allowed) to see what the viewing is like, taking my DSLR, but I could do that afterwards.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: MarkH on Jan 24, 2015, 16:22:54
If all else fails I'll be at the Rising sun Twitton ( TN14 5JR ) the garden there is pretty good as are the refreshments. I'll be taking my binos anyway. Kenny can you make a note of the light pollution in knowle while you're  there.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: JohnP on Jan 24, 2015, 16:25:17
where is Knole Park? Thks
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: MarkH on Jan 24, 2015, 16:55:44
Quote from: JohnP on Jan 24, 2015, 16:25:17
where is Knole Park? Thks

Right at the top of Sevenoaks town on the left as you head towards Tonbridge.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Jan 24, 2015, 17:03:22
I don't think we've agree venue yet.

Doug / Rose were talking about the Recreation Ground at Otford (where I am right now actually):
Otford Village Memorial Hall
http://goo.gl/maps/RpXgR

Cudham is another dark site. Fewer headlights while the pubs are still open but the pub carpark light is bright.
The Blacksmith's Arms
http://goo.gl/maps/kb5gH

Knole Park is in Sevenoaks but no car access after dark.
Knole House
http://goo.gl/maps/Fi4Q0

Rising Sun (Mark's local)
The Rising Sun
http://goo.gl/maps/k4YfB
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Jan 24, 2015, 18:49:58
MarkH, Doug/Rose and I are going to the Rising Sun at Twitton (Otford) this evening after 7pm.

I may venture elsewhere later in the evening depending on the conditions.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: JohnP on Jan 24, 2015, 18:59:09
Thank you.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: doug on Jan 25, 2015, 09:04:58
Thanks for the invite, chaps. The Rising Sun was very good, and the Dark Star Brewery beer was fantastic even though I just had a half. A very enjoyable evening; we both saw some excellent stuff. 
 
Doug.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: MarkH on Jan 25, 2015, 09:36:57
Cheers Doug, yes that was a fun evening. Maybe we could make it more of a regular meeting. The skies are definitely getting better, I was chuffed to bits to find m33 with binos for the first time.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Jan 25, 2015, 09:52:52
Yeah. Good night. Haven't gone through the photos on my full SD card yet!

Robert / John - did you go out in the end?
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Jan 25, 2015, 11:14:09
"Mark observes a crescent Moon over the Rising Sun"  ;) :lol:.

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8622/16175038170_738c2544bf_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qDkijs)

I think he was actually looking at M33 through his bins at this point. Last photo of the evening about half an hour after Doug and Rose left.
Title: Re: Lovejoy widefield experiment above The Rising Sun
Post by: MarkH on Jan 26, 2015, 08:54:26
Kenny, apologies I meant to reply to your text about Knowle but I was investigating an entrance at the back of the park with parking but it looks like there are far too many trees back there. I also looked at ide hill but there is no playing feild.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Fay on Jan 26, 2015, 21:43:41
Good that you have a bit of go, Kenny,  great idea for meeting up on various evenings in our local dark spots!
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Jan 26, 2015, 23:12:45
Quote from: Kenny on Jan 25, 2015, 09:52:52
Yeah. Good night. Haven't gone through the photos on my full SD card yet!

Robert / John - did you go out in the end?

I didn't get out in the end unfortunately but I'm glad you had such a good time.  Hopefully next time I'll manage it.

Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: jpchapman on Feb 14, 2015, 08:59:51
If you don't mind a newbie coming along when you're next out I'll pop along, I've  used Sevenoaks Prep School ( https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Sevenoaks+Preparatory+School/@51.268254,0.226376,556m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x47df4dd42d41d97b:0x14ff08b2da44acec) when I've been out, its behind Knole park their car park and playing fields are open 27/7
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Feb 14, 2015, 10:00:44
Thanks. I took a drive round there yesterday (before dark). It looks like it has possibilities. Do you know whether the school is ok with the public accessing their grounds after hours?
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: jpchapman on Feb 14, 2015, 10:43:47
I'm not sure but I think the grounds are a public access right of way (?) I've walked my dog around the grounds for years and never had anyone say anything to me
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Mar 10, 2015, 14:11:10
Ping...

Looks like it's going to be dark tonight (10th March) plus the moon wont rise till after 11pm.

Anyone fancy an evening out somewhere for a spot of astroimaging ?

Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Fay on Mar 10, 2015, 14:17:52
that would have been good Robert, when I get my Star adventurer, but I may do full setup in garden
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: julian on Mar 10, 2015, 14:22:49
Yes I'm up for it.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Mar 10, 2015, 15:52:35
Any ideas of where to go ?

Not sure I fancy being caught in the grounds of a Prep school late at night (see below) so perhaps somewhere else like the Rising Sun.

Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: julian on Mar 10, 2015, 16:07:30
Don't care where we go, you are right about the school.just give me a time and post code
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Fay on Mar 10, 2015, 16:09:30
Otford car park?
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Mar 10, 2015, 16:18:40
Quote from: Fay on Mar 10, 2015, 16:09:30
Otford car park?

It no very dark !

Lets see if someone else jumps in otherwise I'll pick somewhere at random :)

Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Mar 10, 2015, 18:13:26
In the absence of any other suggestions, the field next to the car park at Otford.

Around Emmets garden or should be good but I'd need to do a proper reccy to find a decent place.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Mar 10, 2015, 18:28:16
Puddledock Ln, Westerham, Kent TN16 1PY

There is a good position by the well, elevated and looking south.  Enough space for a few people I think but a bit further and on a road so might get some traffic.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Mar 10, 2015, 19:04:03
Canned for this evening !

We need to find somewhere a bit more permanent for these impromptu evenings so I'll be going out on a few reconnaissance missions.

Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Mar 10, 2015, 23:26:34
Sorry. I was at Wilberforce Scout Camp supporting Outreach this evening. Otford had drunken youths in the playground on the swings so I tried Sevenoaks Prep on Saturday night. It's fine if you go deep enough into the playing fields. I'm interested in Emmetts Garden though I expected that would be shut at dusk. Blacksmith Arms is still an option
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Ivor on Mar 11, 2015, 13:46:50
Ide Hill too far?

I just remember this spot, I've not been there for years but it might be worth a reccy

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B014'45.3%22N+0%C2%B008'34.2%22E/@51.2459161,0.1428333,2294m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B014'45.3%22N+0%C2%B008'34.2%22E/@51.2459161,0.1428333,2294m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en)

Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Mar 11, 2015, 16:10:33
Thanks Ivor, no that's not too far.

It looks quite good, quiet and not too near houses, I'll go and have a look tonight if I have time.

Robert

Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: MarkH on Mar 11, 2015, 20:56:41
I know that site it has a good southerly view but a height restriction.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Hugh on Mar 11, 2015, 22:13:15
Hi

We did an Outreach to a Pony Club at a sports ground in Halstead (try the Google Maps link below).

It is Station Road, Halstead, opp junction with Clarks Lane.  There is a car park but I'm not sure what the access is as it has a bar gate (you may need to make enquiries).  You could park nearby and walk into the sports ground, which is easy access.  On the night we did the Outreach, which was nice and clear, the Orion Nebula was eyesight visible.  Very rural, little traffic.

www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Station+Rd,+Halstead,+Sevenoaks,+Kent+TN14+7DJ/@51.3335957,0.1356399,909m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x47df532668b9c42b:0xb32c77418ae29ea9

Hope this helps.

Hugh
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Mar 12, 2015, 08:46:47
Robert. If you fancy a joint recce then drop me a line. I'm as keen to find a good, dark, safe site we can use for adhoc meets. Would be good to have a second opinion. Also, could we test and compare each site with a DSLR i.e. photo of Orion?
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Mar 12, 2015, 17:44:40
Quote from: Kenny on Mar 12, 2015, 08:46:47
Robert. If you fancy a joint recce then drop me a line. I'm as keen to find a good, dark, safe site we can use for adhoc meets. Would be good to have a second opinion. Also, could we test and compare each site with a DSLR i.e. photo of Orion?

Will do Kenny.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Mar 17, 2015, 20:35:18
Ok, Kenny joined me in a brief reccy of some sites mentioned below so I'll do a quick summary as to how I saw them:

1. IDE Hill, location is about 0.5 mile south of the town and quite easy to get to, about 20 mins from Orpington.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B014'45.3%22N+0%C2%B008'34.2%22E/@51.2459161,0.1428333,2294m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B014'45.3%22N+0%C2%B008'34.2%22E/@51.2459161,0.1428333,2294m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en)
This looked quite good to the south but had trees to the east and west.  You would not be able to image below within about 30 degrees of the horizon E/W otherwise it's likely to be quite dark.  The car park is mostly loose gravel and firm with no muddy patches and good drainage.

2. Sevenoaks Prep School,location about 1.5 miles south of Seal and quite easy to get to, about 25 mins from Orpington.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Sevenoaks+Preparatory+School/@51.268254,0.226376,556m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x47df4dd42d41d97b:0x14ff08b2da44acec) (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Sevenoaks+Preparatory+School/@51.268254,0.226376,556m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x47df4dd42d41d97b:0x14ff08b2da44acec))
There is good car park access but you may have to lug gear across a field to find a dark place.  There can be considerable light pollution from security lights plus the school was lit up with kilowatt class bulbs in each classroom.  Other than that the place has a good view of the sky towards Sevenoaks and down to about 20 degrees due South and 10 degrees North.

3. Blacksmiths Arms at Cudham, about 4.5 miles southwest of Orpington and an easy 10 min drive.
http://goo.gl/maps/kb5gH (http://goo.gl/maps/kb5gH)
Park in the Pub car park (when they aren't busy) and carry kit into a sports field.  The location is surprisingly dark for a place so near to Orpington but someone has fitted security lights that shine across the field when they come on.  That wouldn't be so bad but they come on with every passing car.  Otherwise the location is good and there is access to a large part of the sky plus a bonus of a pint if things get too nippy :)

Well that's it.  If anyone wants to add anything then please do.

Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Ivor on Mar 23, 2015, 09:06:23
I went exploring at the weekend trying to find some alternative locations, unfortunately nothing perfect. The best was Toys hill with a panarama view from due south to west, but it was 200m trek from the carpark. There are a number of places near me that are good but it comes down to how far you are prepared to drive, do we want to set a 30min cut off?

The Rec in Bidborough is pretty dark with a wide open view there is a couple street lights at the school but you can set up the other side of the field which would put the 130metres away.

Another one I'll check out on a clear night is Penshurst place it has a lovely big car park, I don't believe there are any lights at night but will need to check.

Google estimates these location are within 30mins from Orpington with easy access off the A21.

I was also wondering whether there was anywhere out near Luddingstone golf course, I don't the area too well but there might be a car park around there?
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: MarkH on Mar 23, 2015, 16:48:37
Ivor there is a car park at Lullinggstone but there's a coded gate you might be able to work a deal with SDC.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Mar 23, 2015, 17:19:29
Penshurst must be one of the few villages with no street lighting (or at most very little), even so won't the car park be locked at night ?

Not sure Lully will be dark enough Mark.

Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Mar 23, 2015, 18:30:06
Can you please post Google Maps links to the sites you're considering so I can also look them up.
Ta
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: MarkH on Mar 23, 2015, 20:31:39
Quote from: RobertM on Mar 23, 2015, 17:19:29
Penshurst must be one of the few villages with no street lighting (or at most very little), even so won't the car park be locked at night ?

Not sure Lully will be dark enough Mark.

Robert
You're probably right Robert lot of direct light from London.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Ivor on Mar 23, 2015, 21:16:40
I checked out Penshurst place on the way home, alas there is one bright light that spoils the car park, however there is one spot 51.1795, 0.197 where I think we could use but would need to ask first. It's in the Penshurst estate on a cycle path, without permission you would have to walk there from Penshurst place car park, which is a 10 min walk. If we get permission (which I can't see why we wouldn't) it's possible to drive straight up from Ensfield Rd.

Bidborough rec is 51.167, 0.2385 I live a mile from here and the whole village has only a few street lights. You can park Rectory drive and walk down the footpath into the field.

Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Mar 24, 2015, 18:22:53
I went exploring around Kent this morning, clearly far too much time on my hands. Results as follows, incorporating some of the previous comments.

Note: This was a daylight survey. A night time view of the better sites will be required.

Emmetts Garden
https://goo.gl/maps/3IieS
There are very good south-facing view options from Emmetts Garden next to the carpark. Unfortunately the carpark is shut after dark. The road leading up to the carpark doesn't really have space for parking on it and leads onto a private residents road. I'd say this site is no use for adhoc observing but has potential for a pre-organised visit. Edenbridge Astro have use this site (with permission) for an event before.

National Trust - Octavia Hill Bunkhouse
https://goo.gl/maps/N6BJj
There is an open access road leading up the the NT site. This road is for NT residents and farm access. The road has no gate blocking the entrance to it. About half way along this road is a small turning / access area which by my reckoning could fit 4, maybe 5, cars plus telescopes. Looks like it has great potential but I would advise another visit after dark. I chatted to the National Trust Ranger who is based at Chartwell. We would need to write to get permission to use the site and he has offered to pass the request on to the relevant people at NT. I have his contact details. I think this one is worth further investigation.
Google Maps View:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7647/16918315805_a3d08a152a_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rM1MS6)
The spot:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7286/16730643218_2994b028c9_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ruqVkQ)
Viewing Point: Visibility East to West (South is middle of the picture)
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8719/16732101749_ced13d8a43_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ruyoUV)

Bough Beach
https://goo.gl/maps/XeYuC
Looks like it has dark site potential but I couldn't find anywhere to park and set up. Access to the visitor centre is closed out of season and after dark.

Chiddingstone Castle
https://goo.gl/maps/39mS5
Looks like it has dark site potential but I couldn't find anywhere to park and set up. Access to the site is closed after dark.

However, I have just noticed nearby there is a south-facing sports ground with parking next to it that may be worth checking out.
https://goo.gl/maps/ChZuq

Penshurst Place
https://goo.gl/maps/XT81y
Looks like it has dark site potential but I couldn't find anywhere to park and set up. Access to the site is closed after dark. I'll leave Ivor to comment on this one further as he has checked out the site more thoroughly and has been in email exchange with the appropriate authorities about a possible site nearby within the grounds (https://goo.gl/maps/xTUrR).

Stubbs Wood, IDE Hill
Robert's comments below from our outing a week or two ago. I've added some photos of the site for those who haven't seen it.
Quote from: RobertM on Mar 17, 2015, 20:35:18
1. IDE Hill, location is about 0.5 mile south of the town and quite easy to get to, about 20 mins from Orpington.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B014'45.3%22N+0%C2%B008'34.2%22E/@51.2459161,0.1428333,2294m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B014'45.3%22N+0%C2%B008'34.2%22E/@51.2459161,0.1428333,2294m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en)
This looked quite good to the south but had trees to the east and west.  You would not be able to image below within about 30 degrees of the horizon E/W otherwise it's likely to be quite dark.  The car park is mostly loose gravel and firm with no muddy patches and good drainage.
Google Maps View
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8710/16710980687_652362ef4d_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rsG9mF)
The Carpark
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8754/16892375956_0f42dd5a26_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rJHQRj)
Viewing Point: Visibility East to West (South is middle of the picture)
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8709/16298277693_aa7f30b0bd_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qQdW8P)

Eagle Heights
https://goo.gl/maps/sS73x
I thought this might be a good site because I know there is a field that is used as an overflow carpark. Unfortunately there is a little sign on the gate saying that it is closed after dark. Also, the field is to the north of Eagle Heights so south-facing may not be dark, and the M25 is just a little too close without any hill to shield it.
Google Maps View
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8745/16918313435_3908ec777f_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rM1Mae)
Car Park (facing north towards the M25 in the distance)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7591/16730632828_26dbfca95e_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ruqSfG)

Lullingstone Castle
https://goo.gl/maps/GPUcN
There is a long access road to this site from Eynsford and Eagle Heights which does not have a gate restricting access. There is however a sign just past the Lullingstone Roman Villa Visitor Centre saying that the rest of the road is private access. This has some potential as a dark site. There is plenty of parking. We would need to set up the telescopes in the carpark as access to the field is somewhat restricted unless you want to carry your kit a few hundred yards. I took the advice of some dog-walking locals and called the caretaker. It was a short call - he hung up on me quite rudely after about 60 seconds! The short answer is: This part of the road is private and exclusively for use of residents and castle visitors when the castle is open. Shame he wouldn't entertain a conversation about us visiting a couple of times a month.
Google Maps View
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8752/16295927664_f6fb8f3e30_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qQ1Ty5)
Viewing Point: Visibility East to West (South is middle of the picture)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7586/16892360536_4c54826c17_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rJHLgs)

Otford Village Memorial Hall
https://goo.gl/maps/65C4j
For completeness, and for those that haven't visited this site. I've used this site on numerous occassions with my camera primarily. It's an easily accessible site with a great horizon all round though the sodium glow of London is clearly visible to the northwest. I've been there when the streetlights were turned off and the external lights outside the toilets in the carpark were also turned off - it was very dark and clear. The problem is they usually aren't turned off. I've also had concerns about boy-racers in the car park and lads drinking in the playground. To get to the darkest area you'd want to carry your kit across the length of the park to where the model solar system is centre (avoiding the invisible wire fence round the cricket pitch in the dark). That's fine if you're just carrying a camera and tripod but you wouldn't do it with a scope.
Google Maps View
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8728/16730885640_c9389f2de2_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rusapw)
Viewing Point: Visibility East to West (South is middle of the picture)
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8689/16917284371_8faffd7a5e_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rLVvfK)


Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: ApophisAstros on Mar 24, 2015, 21:45:13
fantastic work kenny ,"dr livingstone i presume"....lol
roger
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: MarkS on Mar 25, 2015, 00:06:55
To help you in your search, download some light pollution kmz (Google Earth overlay) files from http://www.lichtverschmutzung.de/seiten/karten_en.php

A few good ones are:
2012 VIIRS data
2010 DMSP satellite data
Sky background brightness from Cinzano

In Google Earth go to the properties of each overlay in order to adjust opaqueness and potentially produce a composite of all three.

Mark
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: MarkS on Mar 25, 2015, 20:39:44
Or try this:
http://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=10&lat=6635314.18978&lon=87260.20527&layers=B0TFFFTT

Mark
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Mar 25, 2015, 22:44:53
Thanks Mark. Both very useful tools.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Apr 12, 2015, 03:45:19
3 1/2 hour tour of Kent last night / this morning, with clear moonless skies, visiting sites I was discussing with Ivor (most proposed by him). I only intend to visit the nearest two to me, including Octavia Bunkhouse I previously visited in the daytime, but got sucked in as the next site was so near and so on...

My findings as as follows:

Chevening Church, Chevington Lane
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/St+Botolph's+Graveyard,+Sevenoaks,+Kent+TN14/@51.298933,0.134735,18z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x47df53ac1a7c96a9:0xce29843794ee7905
Not suitable. No through road beyond the church. No access to fields near church. Church has motion sensitive kw grade security light. Houses and cars along road opposite church. Can see sodium streetlights on Sundridge Road.  Also a great deal of reflect white light from the M25. Sky was milky white, with an orange tinge to the North though the worst of the London light pollution was shielded by the North Downs.

Access road near Octavia Bunkhouse (NT site)
https://goo.gl/maps/xKT43
Would need permission to use though access isn't gated/locked. Very dark site and very remote. No direct lights at all. A couple of houses over a kilometre away on the opposite hill are masked by a hedgerow adjacent to the observing site. To the North / Northwest this is a lot of orange light pollution at the horizon from London. To the Southwest behind the hill there is a much smaller amount of light pollution from a large town (probably East Grinstead). Rest of the sky is very dark. Was able to make out the full shape of Leo. M44/Praesepe was naked eye visible. M67 was visible in binoculars.

Chiddingstone Sports Ground
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.1850738,0.1488351,19z?hl=en
Short access road which says access only to the sports ground and for pedestrians. Says no parking but I think this means for visitors to the village where parking is a big problem. Very large carpark. You need to walk around 50-100m into the sports ground to get a good horizon from the bordering trees. Very dark site and very remote. Almost no direct lights however there unfortunately is a group of houses around 3/4km to the Southeast with very bright external lights which it doesn't appear to be possible to hide from going deeper into the sports ground. To the North / Northwest this is a lot of orange light pollution at the horizon from London. Rest of the sky is very dark. Was able to make out the full shape of Leo. M44/Praesepe was make eye visible. M67 was visible in binoculars. On Gatwick flightpath.

Bidborough Rec
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Bidborough,+Tunbridge+Wells,+Kent+TN3/@51.1682882,0.2375395,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x47df457761fa75c5:0x321530311cdbfc8c?hl=en
Not suitable. Very little available parking on lane Southwest of park. Primary school adjacent has two separate kw type security lights lighting up the park.

Frant Lakes
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B006'39.8%22N+0%C2%B018'04.6%22E/@51.111045,0.301267,126m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
Would need permission to access. I couldn't get on site to see what the horizon was like but from the entry gate (which was closed and locked) it was a very very dark site. I spoke to the caretaker. It is a commercial site for fishing. Paid entry. Only open 7am - 7pm. The manager also appears to be on site but was not available. Contact 01892 616424.

Bayham Abbey Ruins
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.099282,0.350524,3a,75y,28.08h,83.85t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWIncf6cgWd12ZELzVp5XCw!2e0
Would need permission to access. I couldn't get on site to see what the horizon was like but from the entry gate (which was closed and locked) it was a very very dark site. Sign says no access after 5pm.

Action Paintball, Dundale Road
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B007'28.9%22N+0%C2%B020'32.8%22E/@51.124702,0.342443,477m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
Would need permission to access. Not suitable. Locked gate. Behind the gate is a very large carpark surrounded by very tall trees severely restricting the view.

Pembury playing field
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B008'25.8%22N+0%C2%B020'15.4%22E/@51.140502,0.33761,125m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
Not suitable site. Access to site down a long narrow lane (which I was very uncomfortable with driving down at night) with a closed gate at the playing fields, pedestrian access from there. No parking available except on the lane, blocking access, and barely enough turning space. Fairly dark site but streetlights nearby including one at the end of the access lane. You would also need to go quite far into the playing fields to get a South Horizon which is also crossed by the A21 less than a mile away.

Lower Green Recreation Ground, Pembury
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B008'42.5%22N+0%C2%B019'22.9%22E/@51.145148,0.323018,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
Would need permission to access. Access to the carpark was open but the access lane is actually gated with a sign saying the gate will be closed 30 minutes before sunset. Inside the site the recreation grounds had a boundary fence with a locked gate so there was no means of access.

Postern Lane
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B011'26.1%22N+0%C2%B018'06.6%22E/@51.190579,0.30183,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
Possible but might be impacted by Tonbridge lights. Forgot to visit this site on the way back from Pembury.

OAS possible observing sites
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z2zU_B50o51U.kMn9pVPeQuBE
I've created a Google Map showing the sites we have surveyed so far or plan to survey. I'll update it tomorrow with the notes from tonight's survey. It's possible to add other "layers" but it bugs out when I try to add any of the light pollution layer that Mark proposed.

Cheers

Kenny



Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: ApophisAstros on Apr 12, 2015, 07:40:58
sterling work kenny, im always up to help if you go out again, or anything...

  rog
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Fay on Apr 12, 2015, 08:00:25
Kenny, you are so dedicated, lots of good work you are doing
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Apr 12, 2015, 09:14:52
Thanks. After a few hours sleep I appear to have "I drove all night" playing in my head. Thanks also to Ivor who is running a ton of marathon training miles weekly round remote locations and finding these potential dark sites.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Fay on Apr 12, 2015, 09:36:33
ha ha I can imagine Ivor running to these locations, well done Ivor!
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Fay on Apr 13, 2015, 14:03:25
went to Bough Beech reservoir, near Ide Hill, to look at birds.

you are not allowed around the water but have to look from a small road that goes over the water. there were a lot of birders on the edge with their chairs, tripods  and binos etc  they said it is very dark there, no lights around.

 
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Apr 13, 2015, 14:33:08
Fay -Can you post a Google maps link to the road? Is this part of the commercial site or just a road nearby?

I made a daytime visit a couple of weeks ago and the entrance to Bough Beach was closed. The sign outside have very restricted access both in terms of time of year and time of day.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Fay on Apr 13, 2015, 14:38:46
it is just a very quiet road. i dont think i saw a car go by all the time I was there. you cant get into the site, only if the info centre is open which is weekend, wed and bank holidays.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Bough+Beech,+Edenbridge,+Kent+TN8/@51.221688,0.142643,3a,75y,181.21h,74.56t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1styRe2fqjngHgB7XhW1jD_w!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x47df50595f251291:0xe73b65e1ce16077c
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Carole on Apr 13, 2015, 16:12:05
I've been to Bough Beech bird watching and as stated you have to view from the road.  I don't think this is really a very suitable place to erect telescopes, and what about the passing cars over the road?

Is there anywhere close to this where we could do so, I can;t remember because we were looking for birds at the time. 

Carole
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Fay on Apr 13, 2015, 17:02:24
it would not be ok for a full size setup, like you would do in a field, but a casual light weight visit! depends on what you want to do
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Apr 13, 2015, 20:12:18
Fay,

We're looking for dark sites that can be visited for a few hours (at least) and aren't too far away so we can setup and get some imaging in the evenings.  DSC, whilst being a great social place isn't always clear so we need something we can organise with a bit more agility for a small group.  That means grab'n'go equipment, obviously the bigger you are the more you can grab...

Robert
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Ivor on Apr 14, 2015, 12:52:47
Kenny i love the Google maps summary, you'll have to show me how to do that. I think is an excellent way to highlight locations and with the number of sites investigated maybe it's time to stand back and reflect.

It is proving difficult to find easily accessible perfect sites within 30mins of Orpington we currently have one site which has potential but requires further discussions with the NT. I'm anticipating these discussions going the same way as mine with Penshurst place, people are unlikely to unknown people accessing their land without notice with no benefit to themselves.

Unfortunately for us dark secluded car parks are perfect for other night time activities whether that is vandalism or other "Anti-social behaviour" (as Penshurst place put it) hence many possible sites have barriers up to prevent this.

On my training runs I have found some great locations but I'd had to dismiss a lot of them as land owner are just not going to let us drive onto their land and potentially damage it with no potential gain for themselves. Put it another way if you owned a field would you let complete strangers use your land?

If the goal is to find locations better than normal Orpington skies are some of the places we found notably better than that but not perfect? I think we need to formalise a rating system for the useable sites we have found to date, where many are not suitable for deep sky imaging maybe we would be able to do planetary or visual?

I've briefly discussed this with Kenny, but I wonder if we should approach NT, Forestry Commission sites and land charities offering a couple of solar based sessions over the summer months to attract punters in exchange for night access. This at least gives them something in exchange.

I've yet to view the sky from Beeche on an Observing night, maybe we approach them about getting more access we are a known entity to them so they might be more receptive.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Apr 20, 2015, 15:56:45
Repost after the database crash.

Quote from: Ivor on Apr 14, 2015, 12:52:47
Kenny i love the Google maps summary, you'll have to show me how to do that. I think is an excellent way to highlight locations and with the number of sites investigated maybe it's time to stand back and reflect.

If you access Google Maps via a browser, one of the options is "My Maps". Click on that and you can see your current maps or "Create". Click "Create, add pointers, markers, notes to your map. It autosaves as you update it. This map then becomes available as a layer that you can add back in Google Maps (browser or IOS / Android app) and you can also share it with other people (various permission settings).

Quote from: Ivor on Apr 14, 2015, 12:52:47
If the goal is to find locations better than normal Orpington skies are some of the places we found notably better than that but not perfect?

The 'less-than-perfect' sites I have consistently used over the past 6-12 months are:

I would add to this list:

Quote from: Ivor on Apr 14, 2015, 12:52:47
I think we need to formalise a rating system for the useable sites we have found to date, where many are not suitable for deep sky imaging maybe we would be able to do planetary or visual?

I agree. When I was doing my overnight tour of Kent I was looking at:

I did a quick search online and found the following links on the Bortle scale which look quite interesting:

Quote from: Ivor on Apr 14, 2015, 12:52:47
I've briefly discussed this with Kenny, but I wonder if we should approach NT, Forestry Commission sites and land charities offering a couple of solar based sessions over the summer months to attract punters in exchange for night access. This at least gives them something in exchange.

I've yet to view the sky from Beeche on an Observing night, maybe we approach them about getting more access we are a known entity to them so they might be more receptive.

I'm up for this.

Observing sites we have reviewed so far with the dark sky map added as a layer:
(http://www.sharpfamily.org.uk/Astronomy/Possible-Dark-Sites.jpg)

Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: MarkS on Apr 20, 2015, 21:18:18
Does anyone know what happened to:  http://www.need-less.org.uk/   ??

Although not near Orpington, this car park is the darkest place I found in the South East:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.0474385,0.8217794,180m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

I often went there for imaging before I moved into the depths of Kent.  It has the darkest southerly horizon that I know of.

Second best is this one near Dungeness:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.939818,0.9350048,180m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
The power station produces an obvious glow but otherwise a  very dark sky but not as good as the first.

Both are quite spooky at night, especially the Dungeness one because of the weird bird and frog noises (it's an RSPB car park with lakes nearby).  The police will also pay an occasional visit - they'll ask if you're OK (having blinded your dark adaption with headlights) and have a quick look through the scope or the laptop.

Both are darker than where I live now.

I wouldn't recommend going alone but having said that, I usually did.

Mark
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Apr 20, 2015, 22:58:38
I would be very interested in trying these sites but but they're not really any good for short notice adhoc astronomy. A bit of a trek from Orpington.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: ApophisAstros on Apr 21, 2015, 00:40:18
Quote from: MarkS on Apr 20, 2015, 21:18:18
Does anyone know what happened to:  http://www.need-less.org.uk/   ??

Although not near Orpington, this car park is the darkest place I found in the South East:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.0474385,0.8217794,180m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

I often went there for imaging before I moved into the depths of Kent.  It has the darkest southerly horizon that I know of.

did you find that one on way back from kelling one year?
rog
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Rick on Apr 21, 2015, 06:52:03
Quote from: Apophis on Apr 21, 2015, 00:40:18
did you find that one on way back from kelling one year?

If he did he must have taken a wrong turn or three somewhere... ;)
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Fay on Jun 17, 2015, 07:50:12
may pop to Bough Beech thursday evening, anyone else going?
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Kenny on Jun 17, 2015, 19:09:40
Would love to but I'm in Bracknell until Friday. I've had a couple of nights (brief stops) down there by the roadside / reservoir recently. It's pretty good apart from all the planes flying over. Ivor nearly has permission to use one of the nearby fields (one they use as an overflow carpark for major summer events) but we will also need to wait until it is mowed.
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: Fay on Jun 17, 2015, 21:47:37
I will go early in the evening to catch the birders, and see how it goes
Title: Re: Darkish site near Orpington
Post by: RobertM on Jun 17, 2015, 22:22:48
 :police:It's possible but Warning - there is a lot of traffic earlier in the evening ! (Having come back that way today)