Pretty close to giving up with EQMOD.
Mount is switched on and scope is pointing at Vega. I started up Cartes du Ciel and connected to mount. EQMOD says Az=1 Dec =89 i.e. close to Polaris. I right click on Vega in CdC and select Sync to current object. Dialog comes up asking to confirm I am pointing at Vega. I say yes. EQMOD still says Az=1 Dec=89 and if I show scope position it shows something near Polaris. But I've just confirmed it's pointing at Vega. That's pretty unintuitive!
What am I doing wrong?
My procedure is to switch on looking at Polaris, then slew to Vega, centre it then sync. Are you sure you haven't pressed sync instead of slew?
Carole
I usually start by clearing the sync points from the previous session before I start. But for a permanent setup it shouldn't be necessary to do that unless you've changed the orientation of the mount.
When CdC and EQMOD fired up, they assumed the scope was pointing at Polaris. I cleared the sync points, slipped the clutches and manhandled the scope to point at Vega and told CdC to sync to Vega. But EQMOD still insisted it was pointing at Polaris and "Show scope position" in CdC showed Polaris.
It probably would have worked if I did what Carole suggests. But I don't see why the above method shouldn't work.
I'm using the handset now - I'll have a play with EQMOD on the second pier tomorrow.
Yes I think moving the scope manually has caused the confusion. CdC/EQMod still thinks it's looking at Polaris as the mount didn't move. Hope this makes sense.
Carole
It's one of my frustrations with eqmod - it always wants to start with counterweight down. Try setting that position, slewing to vega then manually positioning. That's the only way I've managed to get syncs to work.
Robert
Mark,
The EDMOD park allows you to create an entry to park to (custom entry), so you can define the ALT/AZ to park to, this way the software knows where it starts from. This is from the guy who helped write the software;
Here's the procedure for defining park.
1. Use the EQMOD slew controls to move you "mount" to the desired park position.
2. Click the add park button (not the resynch!)
3. Select a slot form those available - type in a descriptive name and hit the set button. The displayed dials should reflect your chosen position
4. Park to home
5. unpark
6. Select your new park position from the park mode drop down
7. Hit the park button - the simulator should trundle off to your custom position.
The resync encoders button is only ever used when EQASCOM has lost synchronisation with the mount (i.e. it was powered off withouth parking). The idea is that if you can define a park position that you can accurately reproduce (perhaps by bubble levels or using the flats on the worm ends as indicators) then you can get everything back in synch placing the mount t that position and then selecting the defined park position from the park mode dropdown followed by hitting the resynch encoders button.
I think what your trying to do is just stop the mount and disconnect it and think its going to remember where it was. If you think about it the reason why it works at home (polaris) is because the software knows where you have parked, by pointing it at Vega and disconnecting it, the software will not have a clue where it is. By defining the park position the mount software does know where it is.
Chris
Your custom park position is not being remembered by the mount so it is initialising in thinking it's in the standard Home position. Check the settings, it may be worth searching the Yahoo group for it e.g. http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EQMOD/conversations/messages/35621 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EQMOD/conversations/messages/35621). Likewise sync points being saved - they won't if the correct Park command isn't being issued. I know lots of people do these successfully as I read the group postings all the time. Make sure you have 1.27i from the Files section of the Yahoo group, it's a lot newer than the more readily available "release" version.
CdC will point where the telescope does if it's being reported correctly by ASCOM (assuming Track Telescope is on in CdC) otherwise CdC starts wherever you last told it to save settings (I have it set to always do it on exit). So it follows on from the above that when you connect the scope it shows the last saved position until you select Track Telescope (which it doesn't persist between sessions). Also you should be on at least version 3.9-svn2565 which you can get from (actually there is a newer build now!). This has significant improvements and faster screen redraws.
Hope that all helps.
Duncan (http://sourceforge.net/projects/skychart/files/0-beta/2013-09-02/http://sourceforge.net/projects/skychart/files/0-beta/2013-09-02/%5B/url)
Duncan, Chris, Carole,
I understand perfectly that I may have confused it so it doesn't know where it's looking. That's why I'm trying to tell CdC/EQMOD where it actually is looking. What I don't understand is that it completely ignores my attempts to tell it.
I've checked there are no sync points (I've cleared them) and so I then right click on Vega in CdC and tell it to sync to Vega which is where the scope is pointing (unparked and with tracking on). A dialog comes up to ask me to confirm I'm pointing at Vega, I click OK and then nothing changes. Also this sync point is not added to the list of sync points.
Can sync be used in this way? Or am I forced to manhandle the scope to point at where EQMOD thinks it is and begin at that point? (Which is what Robert appears to be doing)
If I am using sync correctly then maybe I've mangled the install. I'll try re-installing both CdC and EQMOD following Duncan's advice below.
Actually I've now found the answer here:
http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/82285-help-eqmod-doesnt-save-any-alignment-points/
Apparently, EQMOD totally ignores a sync point if the point you are syncing is more than 45 degrees away from where it thinks it is pointing.
But it doesn't tell you it is ignoring it, let alone tell you why. Perhaps such info appears in an obscure log file somewhere?
Not very helpful. All I was trying to do was perform a fast 1 star align!!
So the answer appears to be, yes, you are forced to manhandle the scope to a position close to where EQMOD thinks it is, then slew from there to a sync point.
This is why the modern mounts are fitted with encoders so even with manual handling the software still knows exactly where the mount is pointing.
Perhaps submit the alert as a feature request on the EQ-MOD forum?
Blimey
If you have unparked and then use cdc to slew to the target, centre it on you ccd then sync in cdc you should be ok. Sync does not sync to an object but to a point in the sky. It is not alignment in that eqmod doesn't associate the data it stores with an object, it's an offset to a point on a static sphere I believe so enables pointing correction not object locaction. Eqmod Chris has posted good explanations and I think there is a YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1rVx8_17dc) . One of the fist things I did with EQMOD is watch all the videos (a contemporary take on RTFM?).
Finally got EQMOD set up last night and with a park position but there are a few "gotchas":
1) If you haven't run the setup (so it doesn't know the COM port for EQDIR) the EQMOD window just keeps flashing up momentarily and disappearing. This also happens if the COM port changes because you plug everything together differently next time so the COM port changes.
2) If you haven't switched the mount on, the EQMOD window just keeps flashing up momentarily and disappearing.
3) If you try to sync to an object (e.g in Cartes du Ciel) that is too far from where it thinks it is (for one reson or another), EQMOD silently ignores the sync.
4) If you try to sync or slew to an object when tracking is off, you get an OLE Exception error window.
5) EQMOD replaces the handset by a computer keyboard - this makes it extremely impractical to look through the finderscope while making adjustment slews to the mount. I'll buy myself a USB numeric keypad. If I buy a wireless one there's probably a danger I'll accidentally slew the wrong pier!
The other annoying "gotcha" is related to the HiteAstro EQDIR thingy itself. Mine (brand new from FLO) came in a polythene bag with no instructions whatsoever. I plugged it into the USB port but, of course, whatever I did, it wouldn't work and EQMOD couldn't find it. I eventually discovered that I needed to download a driver from the HitecAstro site. Maybe that's because I'm running Windows XP, maybe for other versions of Windows it is Plug'n'Play.
It is certainly not beginner friendly. It wouldn't be difficult to give sensible error information to the user in situations 1-4 above.
That said, I think it will be very powerful now that I have set it up.
Using Joypad instead of a keyboard would be an advantage I think, also as with the keyboard idea, one wireless and one wired would make life simpler
The assigning com port threw me as well. You'd think where it says auto com port, it would actually mean it finds the com port used and assign accordingly!
Cant remember if I had to download a driver or not (using Windows 8) but think I did. In fact I'm sure I did and thought that was the "flashing" problem through incompatability and not because the com port wasnt registered.
That said, I had to use the hand controller to align as I couldnt work out the process from within EQMod with the limited time I had to play.
:roll: Watch the YouTube videos (48?). Forget 'Align'. Start in the right position i.e. unparked and only drive the scope with either EQMOD buttons or CdC or a gamepad - the best option). Do not disengage any clutches to centre a target - there are no encoders! You shouldn't need to do any tweaking like that on a permanent setup. Set CdC to Track Telescope. It should be pointing at your custom Park position if Chris' process is good. You can't use the handset, disconnect it and then use EQMOD,
Easiest thing to do is go to a few stars around your chosen target and sync each to build a local pointing model then slew to the final target. Centre that on the camera using EQMOD controls only and sync it (adds to the model). The more points you sync around the sky the better if you are saving them on Park as the model will be more accurate and the corrections more precise next time.
Oh and the COM port detector has never worked properly! That's why you need to do all the palaver of always using the same USB ports and referring to Device Manager if you don't. To find out what the COM port is. :!
Good luck!
BTW I was up and running and on target in 10 minutes tonight...
Quote from: MarkS on Sep 04, 2013, 08:12:33
Finally got EQMOD set up last night and with a park position but there are a few "gotchas":
1) If you haven't run the setup (so it doesn't know the COM port for EQDIR) the EQMOD window just keeps flashing up momentarily and disappearing. This also happens if the COM port changes because you plug everything together differently next time so the COM port changes.
2) If you haven't switched the mount on, the EQMOD window just keeps flashing up momentarily and disappearing.
3) If you try to sync to an object (e.g in Cartes du Ciel) that is too far from where it thinks it is (for one reson or another), EQMOD silently ignores the sync.
4) If you try to sync or slew to an object when tracking is off, you get an OLE Exception error window.
5) EQMOD replaces the handset by a computer keyboard - this makes it extremely impractical to look through the finderscope while making adjustment slews to the mount. I'll buy myself a USB numeric keypad. If I buy a wireless one there's probably a danger I'll accidentally slew the wrong pier!
The other annoying "gotcha" is related to the HiteAstro EQDIR thingy itself. Mine (brand new from FLO) came in a polythene bag with no instructions whatsoever. I plugged it into the USB port but, of course, whatever I did, it wouldn't work and EQMOD couldn't find it. I eventually discovered that I needed to download a driver from the HitecAstro site. Maybe that's because I'm running Windows XP, maybe for other versions of Windows it is Plug'n'Play.
It is certainly not beginner friendly. It wouldn't be difficult to give sensible error information to the user in situations 1-4 above.
That said, I think it will be very powerful now that I have set it up.
Did you read the manual first? :-) all these are covered in it.
Quote from: Rocket Pooch
Did you read the manual first? :-) all these are covered in it.
Maybe so. But it doesn't excuse the absence of sensible error messages to the user.
Quote from: MarkS on Sep 05, 2013, 08:32:12Maybe so. But it doesn't excuse the absence of sensible error messages to the user.
0C4 ;)
Quote from: Rick
0C4 ;)
"OC4" is 100x better than silently ignoring the action you are trying to perform!
I love it, free software by a frog in his bedroom and were all expecting professional quality code :-)
I like HEX Dumps there much better than an automation error.
Yeah we can't complaint too much as we are getting it for free after all.
The bugs and stuff are irritating but after using the software for a while you get used to them and know how to workaround them. Overall i'd much rather be using EQ-MOD than the crappy handset anyday.
Hi,
I agree Mike I have been using it for years now, which in UK astronomical terms is about 6 nights. Its brilliant.
Mark I think the problem most people have with PC's and astronomy is because most people just don't know how PC work or to use them, because its just not what they do or have done for a living, they have issues that are probably non issues. Then they go off and buy a Mac because you don't get these issues, not because a Mac is better, but because its a restricted OS.
One huge thing I would suggest is try the simulator in EQ Mod, it does everything that the real system does, and if for example you have AstroArt or Maxim you can also simulate scopes and you have a fully simulated system.
But there are a couple of points you need to remember;
1 - The EQ Mounts are dumb, nothing get stored in the mount at all, its held on the PC
2 - If you want to not get stressed out over USA Ports, don't keep moving them about, USA on all devises are dynamically allocated based on what you have plugged in at the time and where, its just life.
3 - Unpark the mount before you try to move it, I have seen loads of people leave hand breaks on or disk locks on in the car and its not good practice.
4 - Buy a wireless game pad, you can then sit in doors and pretend you have a guided missile system outside
5 -If youg going to guide use Pulse Guiding and if your guiding at less that 400mm up the guide rate
6 - Get an FTDI based USB to Serial cable
7 - Read the manual, and update Windows there a myth that its all crap other than XP
8 - Don't move the mount manually, this is daft, do Unpark, sync to a nearby star and then goto near where you want to sync, the software will work it out
9 - Drop a note to Chris (the other one, but we are all smart) and he will probably fix issues, unless there cased by user error
I have never played with any guide settings in PHD and when using EQMod I have always had good guiding with it, even if it is basic. The only issues I have ever had with this setup was a stuck game pad so the mount went one way only, a rusty USA cable now replaced and I think on release 1.25a the XML for storing the sync points would not clear.
But it really works well 10,000 of people use it now, and if you look at the Losmandy site, they have taken a copy and tweaked it for Gemini.
Chris
Chris - what's the preferred gamepad these days. How did it connect to laptop - is it IR?
Cheers, John
Logitech or any compatible one, I use a logitech rumble pad you can get a wired or un-wired version.
http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/support/264?osid=14&bit=64
This may be an option
https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/14104444909035731853?q=Gamepad&client=firefox-a&hs=twX&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.51773540,d.ZGU,pv.xjs.s.en_US.jkEW54nYU50.O&biw=1366&bih=598&tch=1&ech=1&psi=V40pUvmjEoLW7QaUsYGoAw.1378454874315.3&sa=X&ei=XY0pUuPJHIeB7Qb1k4GQAw&ved=0CIMBEPMCMAE
You can use compatible ones they are cheaper.
Forgot to add I got the rumblepad because some wag got the pad to rumble in EQ Mod :-) I like it.
Quote from: JohnP
Chris - what's the preferred gamepad these days. How did it connect to laptop - is it IR?
An alternative is a crippled mouse. I was playing with Eqmod last night and a 3 button USB mouse worked fine. Open the slew pad window then you only need the mouse bottons so the ball can be removed or the optical laser bit covered (else you end up accidentally shifted the mouse off the slew pad window. Left/Right mouse buttons to go Left/Right then click the centre button so Left/Right controls Up/Down. Using the crippled mouse at the eyepiece of the finderscope worked really well.
For updating drivers on Windows machines I would highly recommend SLIMDRIVERS (https://www.slimwareutilities.com/slimdrivers.php).
It is free and finds what drivers need updating and then lets you download them one at a time and install them. There is no need to buy it or register just use it as is. The only advantage of buying it is it will then update the drivers automatically.
I would also agree with Chris in that when you first plug a device into your laptop then remember which USB port you use and always use the same one afterwards. I have all of my ports on the laptop and hub labelled up with each device I use. I only ever plug devices back into the same ports. This saves a lot of headaches in the future. It's an irritating 'feature' of Windows but once you know to do this it works well afterwards. My laptop is Windows 7 and all the software and hardware I've used on it (even after running it over in my car) all work fine with no issues. I think you would have to have some very old hardware for it not to work in Win 7.
Windows XP is fine if you have an older laptop that doesn't have the power to run Window 7. Windows Vista I would avoid like it was the plague as it is the worst OS ever made. If you have Vista and say it works you are either lying, delusional or are damned lucky. The same with Windows 8, simply because the UI is terrible and it's new so won't be covered by drivers as well as Windows 7 is.
I'm also upgrading my imaging laptops - the current Toshiba Portege, although it runs directly off a 12v cable is much too underpowered for my future usage. I bought a refurb Lenovo Thinkpad T60 from Morgan Computers (60Gb hard drive, 2Gb RAM, dual core, Windows XP). I like it so much I've just ordered a 2nd one - for the 2nd pier. But I'll still use the Tosh when I'm imaging away from mains power (or when the long promised National Grid power outages arrive).
Maybe I'll upgrade to W7 but it's probably unnecessary.
BTW I'm really liking EQMOD now I've overcome the beginner's frustrations.
I'm hating EQMOD again. Every time the mount is instructed to perfrom a full-speed slew (e.g. from Cartes de Ciel) all my other USB devices on the (powered) hub disconnect themselves (Canon, QHY5, Canon shutter controller). When I had the EQDIR plugged into the hub then EQMOD lost connection as well. So I plugged EQDIR into its own USB socket in the Laptop. Now EQMOD stays connected during a slew, but everything on the hub still disconnects. It can't be a power problem because I've now plugged everything into the mains. There are no leads snagging suring the slews - a short slew of a few degrees is enough to trigger this behaviour.
Any idea what might be going on?
Otherwise I must try swapping laptops, swapping hubs, unplugging devices until I locate what the cause may be.
I do, but I can't be bothered to go over this again, and again, and again.
Quote from: Rocket Pooch on Sep 06, 2013, 09:05:57
Logitech or any compatible one, I use a logitech rumble pad you can get a wired or un-wired version.
http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/support/264?osid=14&bit=64
This may be an option
https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/14104444909035731853?q=Gamepad&client=firefox-a&hs=twX&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.51773540,d.ZGU,pv.xjs.s.en_US.jkEW54nYU50.O&biw=1366&bih=598&tch=1&ech=1&psi=V40pUvmjEoLW7QaUsYGoAw.1378454874315.3&sa=X&ei=XY0pUuPJHIeB7Qb1k4GQAw&ved=0CIMBEPMCMAE
You can use compatible ones they are cheaper.
Forgot to add I got the rumblepad because some wag got the pad to rumble in EQ Mod :-) I like it.
If you join the EQMOD Yahoo group you can access a database of gamepads known to work...
Quote from: Rocket Pooch
I do, but I can't be bothered to go over this again, and again, and again.
I didn't realise this had been covered before - I'll do a search through your previous posts.
One thought is your hub sufficently powered? When you're moving the mount maybe it's pulling too much power and causing the connections to drop below 500ma.
Check power connection to the hub, my one had a habit of getting loose and disconnecting.
I'd say not enough amps going to your hub. Try a beefier PSU.
I already tried to rule out power problems to the hub. It is mains powered and does not have a dodgy power connector. It is sitting on the table so it doesn't move when the mount slews. Moreover, I've plugged EQDIR straight into the laptop so it doesn't draw power from the hub. So if EQDIR is affecting the hub, I can't see how.
In the final tests I didn't even have the devices on the hub actually being used. But they still disconnected and re-connected during a slew.
So the problem is now very easily reproducible and I'm gradually narrowing things down.
Then it is the power going to the mount that is at fault. Test the voltage pre-slew and during maximum speed slew. Make sure it doesn't drop significantly. If it does drop or oscillates then you have a PSU that isn't regulated well enough. You need a good stabilised power supply with high ampage (at least 6amps). The voltage needs to be constant or you will get comm failures.
Also make sure you're not trying to user it over too long a USB cable.
I'm sure the mount power is fine - I was running the mount off a freshly charged car battery and the red LED light on the mount was constant - it didn't flicker or flash during the slew. I will double check the voltage, though.
With the EQDIR plugged directly into the laptop port I'm not getting comms failures to the mount. But I'm still getting the comms failures on the devices on the powered hub (which is also plugged into the laptop). All my USB leads are sensible length - no USB extenders.
They're all very good suggestions though!
So the hub doesn't have an external power source it relies on the power from the Laptop USB port? I believe the maximum you can pull from the PC port is 1A which would only power 2 devices on the hub.
Will your HUB support an external power supply?
Amendment -
I've just reread your post, you say
Quotethe comms failures on the devices on the powered hub
but can the transformer provide enough current, you want at least 2A.
Yeah always make sure you power the hub.
Hub is mains powered. It is 2A which is plenty adequate for the 3 devices I have attached.
I'll do some further experiments ...
Quote from: mickw on Oct 01, 2013, 09:07:03
Check power connection to the hub, my one had a habit of getting loose and disconnecting.
One of my hubs lost its central power pin. Took me a while to spot!
I spent some time last last doing some exhaustive testing and I'm now 80-90% sure of the cause.
The mount warning LED was indeed flickering during fast slews i.e. the car battery voltage was dropping. However this was not sufficent to cause a communications failure to the mount itself. The only other device (except dew heaters) connected to the car battery was the Canon power adapter. Tests showed that the devices attached to the USB hub would only freeze when the Canon was connected to the same hub and was also powered from the car battery.
So I think a voltage drop to the Canon (caused by the slew) caused a Canon USB communication failure which somehow caused communication failures to the other devices on that hub. Is that likely? It seems to be what I'm seeing.
Note that the USB hub itself is not powered from the car battery but from the mains.
About time you sorted a mains powered supply for your observatory then... I've had no trouble when using a PC power supply.
Do you have any software running that is looking for low battery ?
I believe APT gives a warning (or does something) on low camera battery. Not sure if it's camera specific but most features can be turned off.
Quote from: mickw
Do you have any software running that is looking for low battery ?
Catch-22
The low battery happens during slews. When it happens the Camera can't communicate. So the software just sees a comms failure.
You could possibly solve spikes on the lines with some capacitors to act as filters.
Quote from: Mike
You could possibly solve spikes on the lines with some capacitors to act as filters.
You reckon voltage spikes could be part of the problem?
It is certainly a possibility. In most electronic circuits that have communication sections unfiltered power sources can wreak havoc and cause constant comms. issues.
You could place an inducter in series with the supply and a decoupling capacitor across it to smooth it out. Another option is to run the 12v through a fixed voltage regulator (DC-DC converter). Most DC-DC converters have other circuitry to filter out noise too. However, getting one for the ampage you require would not be cheap.
If it was me, I would ditch the battery and get a properly regulated power supply.
Such as: http://www.rapidonline.com/Electrical-Power/Rapid-4A-13-8V-Fixed-Output-DC-Regulated-Power-Supply-Linear-Mode-77155
Another option is an ATX PSU from a desktop PC which also has 5v and 3.3v outputs. They have plenty of amps and as they are designed to power a sensitive PC motherboard are well filtered too. They are also cheap.
This shows you how to modify one nicely:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-an-ATX-Power-Supply-Into-a-Regular-DC-Powe/
A laptop with enough USB Ports?
Quote from: MarkS on Oct 02, 2013, 10:29:03
Quote from: Mike
You could possibly solve spikes on the lines with some capacitors to act as filters.
You reckon voltage spikes could be part of the problem?
This Capacitor (http://www.maplin.co.uk/1-farad-capacitor-with-digital-display-104982) should solve any load problems!
Quote from: The Thing on Oct 02, 2013, 21:37:02
This Capacitor (http://www.maplin.co.uk/1-farad-capacitor-with-digital-display-104982) should solve any load problems!
:boom: :boom: :boom: :flame: