Orpington Astronomical Society

Astronomy => Technical => Topic started by: MarkS on May 31, 2010, 10:43:39

Title: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: MarkS on May 31, 2010, 10:43:39

Question of the day regarding Bahtinov masks. 

I did some experiments last night before the clouds rolled in.  I very carefully focused on a star central in the CCD with the Bahtinov mask in place.  I then turned the mask through 90 degrees and it indicated that the same star was definitely out of focus.

This is probably telling me something important - but what?

Could a tilted CCD cause this?  I think I need to draw lots of diagrams to work this out.
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: Mike on May 31, 2010, 10:51:16
Definitely sounds like the CCD is not flat to the light plane.
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: Ian on May 31, 2010, 10:57:29
could be astigmatism somewhere...
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: mickw on May 31, 2010, 11:15:20
What's the Bahtinov mask made of ?

Is it flat and does it sit square on the scope ?
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: MarkS on May 31, 2010, 11:44:00

Made of laser cut plastic.

Yes, it was sitting square on the end of the scope but, strangely enough, they should still work correctly even if they are tilted.
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: RobertM on May 31, 2010, 12:23:29
Very interesting, was the star central?
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: Carole on May 31, 2010, 12:48:28
.....and just when I thought I had cracked it!!! :cry:
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: MarkS on May 31, 2010, 12:57:38

Robert, yes the star was dead central in the CCD.

Ian, you're right - astigmatism would certainly cause this effect - I can easily prove this.  However, I don't think the scope is suffering from astigmatism, at least I hope its not!  That's why I wondered if CCD tilt could cause the same behaviour - but I can't work out how (or if) this is the case.

Mark
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: Fay on May 31, 2010, 14:51:30
Well, if anyone can work it out, you can Mark. I have not tried mine yet.
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: Rocket Pooch on May 31, 2010, 16:02:43
Hi Mark,

They are crap (oops), err not brilliant, and you have just found out why, if a scope is in line on a single axis in any way then they don't work off axis, or if the mask is out of line, or if they are clipped on wrong etc.  I rate them from Refractors (sometimes) but nothing else.

All you have done is proved they are accurate to a small %, which is probably enough imagers who don't want 100% perfection, but they are fab to get a quick focus.

Years ago I had two sticks in front of my SCT at 90deg to make a perfect cross, they kinda worked to get an ok focus, but it still needed tweaking, when these masks came out I though about them but decided there would be too many issues.  I still use the ADU, FWHM and MK1EB method of focusing, it works every time, and not extra expense on masks etc.

Chris
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: Fay on May 31, 2010, 17:52:45
Carole, must admit I chuckled when I saw you post.....a classic :lol:
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: RobertM on May 31, 2010, 17:56:25
It would be interesting to see if you had the same result with a Hartmann mask or a pair of sticks as Chris has used.  At least then you'd be able to see if it's a problem with mask design or something else.

Robert
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: MarkS on May 31, 2010, 18:30:50

This guy has some interesting observations:
http://deepspaceplace.com/gso8rccollimate.php (http://deepspaceplace.com/gso8rccollimate.php)
Title: Re: Turning the Bahtinov mask
Post by: The Thing on May 31, 2010, 18:46:54
This guy is sort of emulating the way I collimate my SCT with a mask with three slots around the periphery, except he is positioning a star around the periphery as the Bahtinov mask covers the entire aperture. In the three slot mask the diffraction spikes produced are emanating from the extreme edges of the optical system and so provide a measure of the relative positions of each the three collimating screws and thus the tilt of the secondary (it's an SCT). When the points of the spikes meet the scope is collimated, when they cross it's focussed. Could this principle be applied to the banana scope?