Networking your observatory or set up via TeamViewer

[Carole]

I thought I would let you know about an alternative to UVNC for networking the set up so you can sit inside in the warm.

Phil kindly set me up with UVNC when I completed my observatory, but as stated in previous posts it worked very intermittently and we could not seem to get to the bottom of why this was, often it would come up with the wrong number in the observatory 127.0.0.2 instead of 10.0.0.2.

Anyway, eventually Phil sussed out I had a dodgy ethenet port on the indoors laptop, this is the old windows XP lappy, and bent one of the wires inside the ethernet port.  This then enabled a regular connection but would only let me "view" but not "operate" from indoors.

I decided it was time to try out a different method as I did not want to fork out for another indoor laptop, and what I really wanted was to be able to operate my observatory from my desk top upstairs and on the other side of the house and this is where my router is.  I found trying to get an internet  WIFI connection from the Observatory was also very intermittent.

I then spotted a tutorial on Astronomy Shed about networking the observatory via Teamviewer which is free for home use.  To link the two computers if your internet connection is likely to drop you can use a pair of  plugs
TP-Link TL-PA211KIT 200Mbp which utilises your electrical circuit for the internet connection.

I have just tried it all out and hey presto, it all works.

Carole

[RobertM]

That's exactly the way I do it Carole except I use windows remote desktop as the software.  Just like you I could never get a decent signal with wifi.  All my house Internet access is via those plugs and has been for a number of years.

Robert

[Fay]

My connection is not good either, always in & out of the house all the time.

Do you plug the laptop into the adaptor, which would go into mains, as well as using the power plug in another mains outlet?

[Carole]

Fay,

The two plugs that I bought plug directly into a mains socket (one in the house and one by your laptop outside), and each has an ethernet cable and ethernet socket.  

At the indoor computer the ethernet cable plugs into the router.  At the Observatory (outdoor) end the ethernet cable plugs into the Astro laptop.  Both computers need to be connected to the internet and the plugs and cables use the household electrical supply to pass the internet connection.  

This is a link to the tutorial on Astronomy Shed Forum.
http://www.astronomyshed.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5583

Carole

[Mac]

I found it cheaper to purchase a 100m network cable, then two network main plugs.

I've always used remote desktop, and never have any problems.

Mac.

[Rick]

I found it cheaper to purchase a 100m network cable, then two network main plugs.

Cheaper, a whole lot more reliable, and a whole lot less interference, too.

Try using a DAB radio anywhere near those mains plug ethernet adapters...

[Fay]

there are no spare outlets in my router. Do you have to take one out?

[mickw]

there are no spare outlets in my router. Do you have to take one out?

Yes if you don't have a spare outlet but you could get something like this -
http://www.maplin.co.uk/5-port-10-100-1000-gigabit-network-switch-286620
Then plug it into the router and gain an extra 4 ports/outlets.

[Fay]

thanks for that Mick.....

[Carole]

purchase a 100m network cable, then two network main plugs

I have the observatory wired up for network, but the indoor laptop I was using has a dodgy ethernet port.  
The desktop I am using upstairs is miles from the observatory and meant the cable trailing all through the house, and while I have a long enough cable I could not seem to get UVNC to connect via this system.

Anyway it doesn't matter now as I've got it all working.

Try using a DAB radio anywhere near those mains plug ethernet adapters...

Yes, Phil said you wouldn't be impressed Rick, but I don't think I have any Radio Hams living near me and it's not as if I am running it all the time anyway.

Carole

[RobertM]

Fay, I have the 8 port version of this http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-Gigabit-Unmanaged-Desktop-TL-SG1005D/dp/B000N99BBC/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1323250257&sr=8-7 works just the same and it's much cheaper.

Like Carole I can't wire up the house with Cat 6e network cable (unfortunately).  But the Gigabit Powerlines give very good throughput and flexibility.  There are about 6 dotted around including to the TV, the girls bedrooms, observatory and a spare I use as a signal booster.

Robert

[Fay]

thanks for that Robert. Yes, I cannot run a cable through the house either.

[Fay]

that comes up as a 5 port Robert, but that is ok, I will order.

I had a couple of DEVELO plugs, cant think what i did with them, same sort of thing.

[RobertM]

4 ports or 5 it doesn't really matter as long as there are enough.  The good thing about these switches is that you just plug the devices in - there's no configuration at all.

Robert

[mickw]

Fay you have ordered the Powerline things as well haven't you ?

[Fay]

yes i have Mick

[Rick]

Yes, Phil said you wouldn't be impressed Rick, but I don't think I have any Radio Hams living near me and it's not as if I am running it all the time anyway.

Curiously, it's not actually the amateur frequencies that get messed about most, because the manufacturers work quite hard to prevent their kit from spewing interference into the amateur bands. The things it'll mess with are the broadcast digital radio stations, and the newer faster adapters may also mess with digital TV.

[Mike]

DAB isn't Radio Amateur equipment it is Digital Audio Broadcast. i.e. Digital radio.

[PhilB]

It does seem a little curious that given the lengths that some of us go to to keep signals out of the mains network that noisy devices designed to inject a signal into the mains are allowed to exist. I do wonder about the security of data transmitted by such means. It should be possible to pick up these signals up and down the street, maybe even over a wider area.

[Rick]

that noisy devices designed to inject a signal into the mains are allowed to exist.

Yeah. There's a BBC Research White Paper (pdf) about the interference they produce, and there are plenty of other collections of evidence that show the extent of the problem, but so far none of the regulatory bodies have done anything other than make excuses.

I do wonder about the security of data transmitted by such means. It should be possible to pick up these signals up and down the street, maybe even over a wider area.

If you're on the same phase from the same sub-station then it apparently works quite well for at least a few hundred yards up and down a street, up to a point. If lots of houses on the same phase are all using them then it doesn't work so well. Security is provided only by whatever measures the adapters themselves take when deciding who they'll talk to.

If you have a nice upstairs ring main then someone prepared to do a bit of work can also receive he signals over the air, but that's more likely a few tens of yards.

[Fay]

Carole, i have got my TP-Link plugs.

on the instruction sheet it says they should be plugged directly into the mains not via an extension, which is where it would be up the garden & indoors, although i can change the indoor one.

Are yours plugged in direct?

Fay

[PhilB]

If you're on the same phase from the same sub-station then it apparently works quite well for at least a few hundred yards up and down a street, up to a point.

I don't know if the system has changed, but the arrangement used to be that supplies where taken from the three phase cable in the road on a rotational basis. So house number one gets say red phase, number two green, number three blue and the pattern then repeats. So the red phase and any signal thereon will surface again at house number four, again at house number seven and so on. None of this traffic appears to be encrypted.

A recent conversation that I had with British Gas revealed that they were starting to roll out metering that was fitted with a transponder that could be accessed over the mains distribution network and could be used to check the integrity of the meter and also to obtain consumption figures for account billing. The range was said to be significant, what ever that means. I got the impression that they were aiming to have some sort of data point at the end of most roads,  so I guess that a range of a few hundred yards is probably in the right ball park.

[Carole]

Hi Fay, yes I had the same dilemma and contacted Dion on Astronomy shed who put up the tutorial.  He said it would be OK so long as you don't have a surge protector on the strip.  I have only 1 power socket in the obsy and everything runs off it.  I have plugged the TP Link into an extension and it is fine, I am plugging the indoor one straight into a wall socket.   

Dion thinks they are just covering themselves.  

Carole

[Carole]

Phil has been round and fixed up the UVNC on the desktop (I had it on the old laptop before) so I can now get either Teamviewer or UVNC to the obsy.  

One thing interesting with Team Viewer is you can give the codes to a friend, and they can watch what 's happening on your PC via the internet.  

Apparently there is a view only option which I haven't looked for yet, and even more than one person can watch it, so we could have a shared imaging session, or let learners watch if we wanted to.  Or a shared processing session.



Carole

[Fay]

Thanks Carole. So the TP, plugs into the mains socket, the ethernet cable goes from this to my  broadband box. So what connects the indoor laptop to the TP plug?

[Carole]

Bit confused Fay, isn't the indoor one the one you plug into your broadband box?

This is what I have done.

Indoors: the TP link is plugged into the mains, the provided ethernet cable from this plugs into your router indoors.  (Assuming it's long enough, or you'll have to obtain an longer one).
In the garden: the TP link is plugged into the power socket, and the ethernet cable which is plugged into the TPlink in the garden, plugs into your imaging laptop.  

Once it is all connected up, you need to press the buttons on the bottom of the TPlink for several seconds, first on one and then on the other, I am not sure whether it matters which one is done first.  This makes them talk to each other.

Then connect both computers to the internet and Teamviewer.  Connect indoors to the one in the garden using the password on on the garden one.  This tripped me up too because the password seems to change every time you start it up.  

If you can't connect the one outdoors to the internet, I am not sure what happens then, which is why I am keeping the UVNC up my sleeve which also works via the TP Link.

Hope this helps.

Carole

[Fay]

thanks carole, that clarifies it now. I thought you also had to connect the indoor laptop to it, and could not figure out how.

yes what if the internet connection goes off with the one in the garden, back to square one as it was with UVNC. I thought that the TP-link would bypass all that.

[Carole]

What was happening with your UVNC Fay?
Seems mine was actually OK, my problem seems to have been my dodgy ethernet port on my old indoor laptop (which I didn't realise was dodgy). 
I am now using my desktop indoors which is upstairs on the opposite side of the house, but the cable would have had to have trailed all through the house, so using TPLink avoids that. 

I thought that the TP-link would bypass all that.

TP link avoids a network cable, Teamviewer works through the internet. 

Carole

[Fay]

i keep losing the wireless connection

[Carole]

Assuming UVNC has been connected up OK, you should be able to connect with the TP Link without needing the internet. 

It's only Teamviewer that needs the internet.

I tried to link up my upstairs desktop to UVNC and it connected just momentarily and then dropped out again (this was using the long cable through the house), but when Phil came over he said I needed to use some different settings as I was going through the router.  He's now changed that and it works fine through TPLink. 

As it worked before without internet to my old indoor laptop (Before the ethernet port went on the blink), I am assuming it only needs a local network in the house and not an internet network. 

Hope that makes sense.

Carole

[Fay]

oh so you just click on UVNC as normal, & don't connect to the internet? i never used a long cable for it, did it wireless.

[Carole]

Well I say that theoretically Fay, but I have just tried UVNC myself and can't get to work in any way shape or form, on or off the internet - even though it was working Friday when Phil came, and it's not my dodgy laptop ethernet port this time as I'm using the desktop.  But Teamviewer works fine.

I don't know what it is with UVNC but I have had nothing but problems with it right from the start, works when it feels like it.  It can't be because it has the wrong settings as it was working fine on Friday. 

I'm going to give it one more try.  Then sticking to Teamviewer.

Carole

[The Thing]

It can't be because it has the wrong settings as it was working fine on Friday. 

But you have created a new additional network with your mains thingy attached to your router so I would expect IP addresses need to be changed.

[Rick]

metering that was fitted with a transponder that could be accessed over the mains distribution network

Aye, I've heard it rumoured that this is behind OFCOM's la-la-la-we-can't-hear-you attitude to complaints about PLA interference; if they act against PLAs for causing interference then they'll catch this type of "smart metering" in the same net, and there's Big Money (tm) behind it...

[Carole]

But you have created a new additional network with your mains thingy attached to your router so I would expect IP addresses need to be changed.

They were changed on Friday and all was working with router and "mains thingy. Nothing has been altered since then.

Carole

[Fay]

oh dear, i wondered if the different systems would clash!

[Carole]

I don't think they clash Fay, had both of them running on Friday but today I can only get Teamviewer working.

Nothing has been changed since then.

Carole

[Carole]

Have you tried to use Teamviewer Fay?

I've had a hilarious evening using it as a sort of team conference with some of the the lads and lasses on Astronomy Shed Forum.  One person demonstrating processing while the rest of us were watching putting in typed interjections every now and then, and in the mini chat, some people were wanted to stop for a break and put smilies of a cup of tea and some-one smoking a fag as hints.  Some of the comments were hilarious for example Dion is from the Manchester area I think, and has an accent, and one of the guys listening in is from Scotland.  Dion was rattling on on the microphone and the chap from Scotland typed, "Can you slow down, I need to translate". 

Carole

[Mac]

oh dear, i wondered if the different systems would clash!

They shouldnt clash, as all that has happened is that new network interfaces have been added with new ip addresses.
The computer is not interested how the network works, just that it can see the ip address and interface,

so wether its hard wires,
wireless
or mains interface,
they are all the same,
I would check that the ip addresses are the same and have not changed since friday, also jut check that they
are using the same protocol.

Mac.

[Carole]

Just checked the IP address, and it is slightly different to the code showing in the obsy yesterday.

This is what it kept doing before when I used the laptop and cable.  I don't know how to stop the one in the obsy defaulting to the wrong address.  It doesn't seem to matter with Teamviewer.

Carole

[Fay]

Robert, when using that TP link, multi connector box, it has a mains plug on it, do you also still have to plug the Gigaset box into the mains as well, or does one plug service both when connected  together?

[RobertM]

You mean the Gigabit Switch ?  If so then it needs mains power to function but from that point on it's transparent and allows anything plugged in to communucate with anything else.  If you have a powerline you want to it then use an ethernet cable to connect them just as you would your computer and ADSL modem.

Does that help ?

This is what I have:

                      |--- ADSL router
                      |--- Study computer
Gigabit           |--- Powerline ~~~~~~ mains ~~~~~~ Powerline ------ Laptop 1
Switch            |                                       |  ~~~~~~ Powerline ------ Laptop 2
                      |                                       |  ~~~~~~ Powerline ------ TV
                      |--- Printer                        |  ~~~~~~ Powerline ------ Observatory
                      |--- whatever     

~~~ =  mains
--- = ethernet cable   

Hope that helps

Robert 

[Fay]

Robert, very good of you, thanks.

I SKYPED with Mick & he put me straight on the cables etc, a lot more now connected to the TP Link box, than there was. I have done a couple of tests & it is working ok.


With UVNC while connected, the movements on the screen were very jerky and slow, but this way, it is just the same as actually working on it.

thanks again for everyones help

Fay

[Carole]

Glad you got it sorted Fay.  I'm assuming you are using Teamviewer which I find very good and easy to use.

Carole

[Fay]

yes Carole I am

[Fay]

well i am connected up & sitting indoors before i have to make a trip up the garden to see if HH is out of the forest!!!!!

Lost connection once, but it came back

[Carole]

Glad you posted this Fay, I hadn't even bothered to look outrside as I had foolishly gone by the weather forecast for tonight from a few days ago which was not clear. 

Then I wondered why I couldn't open the dome of the observatory.  I had forgotten I had put the dome cover over it a couple of days ago in case of snow or frost and because it was dark I could not see it - duh!!!

I'm now sitting in the warm with Teamviewer on.

Carole

[Fay]

well the Teamviewer/TP Link worked well last night.

[Carole]

I'm glad this thread helped you Fay.  

Carole